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Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

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Re: Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

#61

Post by RandomOpinion »

RubenSandwich wrote: post #4

Articles like this seem to be promoting the Cognitive dissonance that most developers hold. Namely: 1. I need to be always learning about programming, even on my spare time! 2. Work/life balance is important. "Imagine a doctor who doesn’t actually like helping people with their health problems. Or an automotive engineer who actually thinks cars are stupid and boring." Lots of doctors and automotive engineers just do…

>Lots of doctors and automotive engineers just do their job and then come home, in fact most employees don't come home and continue to work on semi work related things on their spare time. My wife is a civil engineer and yet she doesn't build a 1/16 scale bridge in our basement when she comes home. Does that make her a bad civil engineer?

Perhaps not the best example you could have chosen: Physicians and licensed engineers do have mandatory continuing education requirements that more or less require them to be learning for a lifetime.

Re: Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

#62

Post by nunez »

Yeah, no.

I strongly hate this idea that programming is for passionate people only. I interpret this as "You want to find a job that will improve your living conditions significantly if you're willing to put the work in? Fuck you; stick to the coffee bar."

I encourage everyone who is interested in learning how to program and wants to make a lot of money to take this field up. Why? Because at the end of the day, programming is a device whose input is business needs and output is something that makes that business money. Maybe. Better programming saves money and makes those money-making machines cheaper to repair and fix, but if it still makes money, then it still makes money.

If they learn to become good at this stuff, then why shouldn't they take advantage of an amazing salary and usually fantastic working and learning conditions?

BTW: there are plenty of great doctors and lawyers who are in it for the cash. Why? As it so happens, getting better at one's field leads to better chances at making more money. So you get better.

Re: Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

#64

Post by nunez »

maxaf wrote: post #32
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #20

The discourse on "passion" in the context of CS has gradually been poisoned by commercial interests. It started as a way of describing great programmers. Those who are at the top of the field probably are very passionate about it. Once "the best programmers are passionate" became established as a common meme, it was co-opted as a hiring signal since everyone only wants to hire the best. In response, all job-seekers a…

Passionate engineers can be a total drag to work with and lead. Imagine having to fight through squalls of passion in a business setting. "Passionate" has become in my mind another bullshit word that people use without understanding its meaning or implications.

In my experience, "passion" usually manifests itself as several hour-long discussions about trivia that have little to do with what's actually at stake.

Very frustrating.

Re: Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

#65

Post by nunez »

ebbv wrote: post #41
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #20

The discourse on "passion" in the context of CS has gradually been poisoned by commercial interests. It started as a way of describing great programmers. Those who are at the top of the field probably are very passionate about it. Once "the best programmers are passionate" became established as a common meme, it was co-opted as a hiring signal since everyone only wants to hire the best. In response, all job-seekers a…

I agree with you. My point was mostly that people should pursue fields that better fit with their own interests and enthusiasms, and that programming as a career is not a bed of roses and if you're going to go into it without passion you're gonna have a bad time.

Really? Okay; tell me, right now, about another field where I can make over $100K per year nearly ANYWHERE in the US, without additional formal education, in a working environment that gives me free breakfast, lunch and dinner, doesn't make me wear a uniform and actually pays me to learn new things.

Re: Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

#66

Post by stevenwu »

I don't agree with this article mainly because one's passion for anything in life is dynamic. It starts and stops at points in your life that you can't anticipate.

I didn't know anything about programming until university - I took the courses CS majors had to take in my stats degree until the end of 2nd year, and I definitely wasn't "passionate" about it. Actually, I was quite convinced I didn't want programming to be in my career whatsoever. But after my first co-op term in a start-up where I got to see what actually could be done with a team of people who knew how to code, coupled with 3rd year classes being more interesting and relevant than the fundamentals, I gained my passion. I now run a SaaS that combines programming, statistics, and other passions.

If I read your article after 2nd year while applying for my first jobs and taken this advice, I would have said "screw it, life's too short" and not be in the situation now where so many more doors are open compared to my classmates. I'd be on track for pigeon holing myself into boring stats jobs that need SAS certifications, with none of the skills I have now for a career in modern data analysis in the tech industry.

Side note, I hate reading about developers who lament about the career trajectory compared to being a doctor/lawyer. Most good developers are smart enough to genuinely believe that being a doctor would have been attainable if you just switched another lever earlier in life. I think this is a valid regret if you had actually always wanted to dedicate your life to legally/medically advising people, but you chose programming for the money. But for almost all of these developers, the decision to choose their career wasn't 100% about money and being a doctor/lawyer was never a serious consideration past wishful thinking. You're just viewing the grass as greener on the other side without considering the cons and consequences of actually being a doctor/lawyer, and that type of negative mentality is not healthy.

Re: Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

#67

Post by thatswrong0 »

Programming as a career allows me to have a great lifestyle: I get a lot of time off, it pays me very well despite graduating college pretty recently, most tech companies don't drug test, and I have fun and get to solve puzzles every day.

It's a great job, but I'm not passionate about it. I won't go home and work on a side project or pick up a book about.. any learning or reading I need to do happens at work. I have other hobbies I'm actually passionate about and I simply don't have time or willpower to do something that feels like work not at work. And there's no way pursuing my hobbies full time would lead to me being happier - I'd be much poorer and have a way worse lifestyle.

I also don't feel like I'm locked into programming as a career forever - it's a great gig now but should it become less desireable then you can bet I'll adapt to whatever allows me to have the lifestyle I want. If that means moving into management in 5 years, so be it.

But that also doesn't mean I don't accomplish as much as other more passionate programmers per hour worked. I don't think passion has nearly as much to do with that as much as being able to find your work fulfilling and wanting to do good work. But those aren't the same thing.

Re: Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

#68

Post by [deleted] »

nunez wrote: post #65
ebbv wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. My point was mostly that people should pursue fields that better fit with their own interests and enthusiasms, and that programming as a career is not a bed of roses and if you're going to go into it without passion you're gonna have a bad time.

Really? Okay; tell me, right now, about another field where I can make over $100K per year nearly ANYWHERE in the US, without additional formal education, in a working environment that gives me free breakfast, lunch and dinner, doesn't make me wear a uniform and actually pays me to learn new things.

[deleted]

Re: Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

#69

Post by falcolas »

RandomOpinion wrote: post #61
RubenSandwich wrote: post #4

Articles like this seem to be promoting the Cognitive dissonance that most developers hold. Namely: 1. I need to be always learning about programming, even on my spare time! 2. Work/life balance is important. "Imagine a doctor who doesn’t actually like helping people with their health problems. Or an automotive engineer who actually thinks cars are stupid and boring." Lots of doctors and automotive engineers just do…

> Lots of doctors and automotive engineers just do their job and then come home, in fact most employees don't come home and continue to work on semi work related things on their spare time. My wife is a civil engineer and yet she doesn't build a 1/16 scale bridge in our basement when she comes home. Does that make her a bad civil engineer? Perhaps not the best example you could have chosen: Physicians and licensed en…

And a lot of the continued education requirements is paid for by, and time taken from, their employer.

Re: Don’t Pursue Programming if You Aren’t Passionate About It

#70

Post by RandomOpinion »

falcolas wrote: post #69
RandomOpinion wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of doctors and automotive engineers just do their job and then come home, in fact most employees don't come home and continue to work on semi work related things on their spare time. My wife is a civil engineer and yet she doesn't build a 1/16 scale bridge in our basement when she comes home. Does that make her a bad civil engineer? Perhaps not the best example you could have chosen: Physicians and licensed en…

And a lot of the continued education requirements is paid for by, and time taken from, their employer.

That's part of the tradeoff for software development not being a licensed and regulated profession. (The other half of the tradeoff being that anyone, regardless of education or credentials, can be a software developer.) You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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