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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#251
post #239

I am on an H1-B work authorization. The company applied for my position with a salary of ~$100K/yr (on the LCA and the H1 application) but they actually paid me ~$240K/yr. This year and the next, it will be well north of $300-$330K/yr. Why would they do this? Simple - to be able to pay me a prevailing wage and keep me in status in case the shit hits the fan. If they applied to the government saying they'd pay me $240…

My actual salary will never be reported in an H1 database. The company has to report your actual salary. That's what in this database: http://h1bdata.info/ It's not prevailing wage, it's actual base pay. I can remember at a previous employer that when you file for an H1-B, the company has to post the information in a public place . The form states the prevailing wage and the actual base salary.

Well, one can pay out using bonuses, distributions and any number of other instruments.

I didn't dispute that the job opportunity had to be posted prominently in the workplace with details exactly as stated in the H1 application.

LCA re-applications / H1 amendments are not required unless the location, the position or the nature of the job change significantly. Pay cuts are simply not allowed without informing the government.

Actual base pay >= prevailing wage? Perhaps my using them interchangeably isn't right. However, given a reasonable chance of approval, I would not apply for an H1 auth promising anything above the prevailing wage.

My tax returns / pay stubs are included in H1 extensions, intermediate steps to a green card and in visa applications. They are well aware of the pay raises.

IANAL and I can check with our lawyer again but this was our company's legal advice. If you are a lawyer or know one, this may be a difference of opinion.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#253
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh? SD is a super-generic title. H1B pool can include disproportionate number of fresh graduates (BS or MS) because OPT program gives them the flexibility to wait till April comes around to file for H1B. It is almost impossible (with exceptions for researchers and multinational managers/ O1/O2/L1) to hire experienced people from outside the US via H1B. Thus this skewing happens: more jobs for fresh graduates probably…

Why would we need H1Bs for fresh graduates, unless they are graduates in some very niche speciality (maybe machine learning?). Aren't H1Bs for skilled workers where they can't find an American equivalent? Is it really the case that there aren't enough fresh American grads graduating every year?

This is because H1-B is the "only" way for an international fresh grad to work in the US. This is a direct result of US immigration policy which ties up the visa process with the need for an employer sponsorship and more importantly the ability to acquire permanent residence is also tied up to employer sponsorship which leads to "indentured" servitude as many folks around here point out. Compare it with let's say Germany who has a "Blue Card" visa program which gives an international (or intra european immigrant) 18 months to find a job and then if you manage you work for an employer for another 22 months (only) you get a permanent residence. This does not need any sponsorship from the employer. It's just a clock. Same is the case with Canada and Australia.

All countries which attract foreign students in their universities give some sort of a time period for them to use the acquired skill and if prevailing conditions are right, to stay in the country and work. Imagine you want to move to Germany, what will you do? A) Search for an employer sitting in the US and hope they file a Blue Card for you (equivalent to getting an H1-B filed from outside the US) B) you plan to study and then stay there based on your studies (OPT leading to H1-B in the US). Now if you study at University of Erlangen and immediately after graduating you are told you pack up your bags and leave, then what do you do? You can institute such a policy saying no international students will ever get to stay in this country, then it's fine. The only thing would be a tremendous drop in in coming students who are also paying through their noses and investing dollars into the University System. That's how it works worldwide.

The problem here is most of the people here do not understand what Visa options are there, how they work, what kind of extreme vetting takes place to get a student visa in the first place, most folks would have never ever applied for a visa in their lives, would have never seen the inside of a consulate, would not know how visa systems work in the rest of the world and then arrive at a conclusion which is based on shaky foundation.

H1-B visas are not only for Tech, they are also for other streams of education or workers like MBAs. There are two kinds of complaints here which prop up constantly. A) H1-B applied by these "outsourcing" Indian companies which treat their employees shabbily (in fact its the US corporations which use and initiate these), so off with their heads. Sure, make H1-B attractive to maybe people who have invested and studied in the MS/PhD grad system. B) But.. now people moan about H1-B Masters and Phd getting "starting" salary lower than what they "think" should be offered to a regular US Citizen. Anyone who has ever interviewed or worked with the top Tech firms (or has managed to clear their interview rounds hahahaha) or have been part of the hiring groups would mostly say that these companies offer very competitive salaries and make NO discrimination at all in terms of talent.

Which side are we debating on or are we moaning the influx of ALL immigrants as unworthy of the job market? All jobs are ours hahahaha Microsoft can't take 10 rounds of interviews anymore since there are only US citizens available for these jobs. We won!

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#254
Many of the people who are against H1B are missing the bigger picture.

1. H1B employers pay wages based on the numbers Department of Labor provides them.

2. Labor department contains a la carte of titles available for the same job to choose from. Employers generally chose a title with lower wages. Programming Analysts and Software Engineers do essentially the same job with upto 50K spread in wages.

3. The limit on H1B works against American Employers who usually pay much higher wages than the Indian consultancies. The American employers have to compete with a flood of applications from India. This forces big companies to subcontract Indian firms.

4. Companies in India randomly select employees to file for visas irrespective of whether they have actual business in US. Many H1B recipients don't actually come to US. Many wait in India for years before their companies arrange for a actual job in India. The lottery forces everyone to game the system.

5. US cannot actually deny Indian consultancies from operating in US. That would be denying market access to India. Indian companies does 60 Billion dollar worth of business in total. That's paltry compared to trade between US and India. US sells everything from Boeing to Starbucks and any restrictions on visas could invite trade war from India too.

6. People who oppose H1Bs actually dream of earning Wall Street salaries in Silicon Valley. That's a pipe dream unless you work in quant engineer jobs in Hedge funds and HFT. You can't build businesses that would pay the average worker 400K in Silicon Valley.

7. Restrictions on H1B would move American programming jobs to Asia much like the manufacturing jobs of rust belt.

8. The world is a much bigger place than America. An Indian worker taking a job doesn't necessarily mean a loss of opportunity for an American worker. It's not a zero sum game. H1B workers take up tech jobs. In most big companies, the ratio of tech to non tech jobs is atleast 1:6. Look at Amazon creating 100K non technical jobs in last few years. A few million technology workers in America make most of the high tech for the rest of the 7 billion human beings on the planet. Trade restrictions are not something you need. There could be a Chinese firewall in every country to protect local jobs and to rob Google and Facebooks of business opportunities. There would be more Baidu's, Youku's, Wechats and Alibabas in every country on the planet.

9. There's actually such a thing as skills shortage at every level. Even at the blue collar end, Many Americans cannot pass tests at 9'th grade level and are functionally illiterate. Tech jobs require a whole lot more skills that the coal miners in Michigan won't be able to take up. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/education/edlife/factory-...

To summarize, if you are concerned about H1B lowering wages in your market, campaign for worker mobility and higher wages for H1B and the market would work it out. Americans are best at creating free market solutions to problems. H1B lottery system and the restrictions is a socialist solution that best works in restricted economies. Also campaign for a startup visas. Both for entrepreneurs and employees. The Frech Tech visa could be a model http://visa.lafrenchtech.com/ . This would help many of the people languishing in H1Bs to create more companies and more jobs here in US.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#255
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing the average salary of all H-1B jobs (developer, accountant, analyst, etc.) to the salary of a developer. Instead, look at the average salaries for H-1B software engineers in 2016: Facebook @ Menlo Park: $152k Google @ Mountain View: $130k Apple @ Cupertino: $154k Amazon @ Seattle: $124k Microsoft @ Redmond: $120 So comparing base salary alone, these companies are definitely not underpaying their H-1B…

Also don't forget to add the ~$10-$20k in legal fees for sponsoring an H1b on top of that.

I don't know if the legal fees go that high, but it can depend on the lawyer I guess. 10k is normal, 20k seems high.

But regardless, also add the non-salary benefits, of course: non-discretionary bonuses, stock grants, etc.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#256
post #243

The economist proposes getting rid of the rule that requires H1B workers remain within the company that sponsors them That sounds reasonable, but why then require that a company sponsor an immigrant in the first place? Why not let that immigrant choose where he or she will work? In fact, why not let the immigrant choose what to study, where to work, where to live, all in response to market signals? People have posted…

'I still maintain this - any immigrant system that allows corporations to decide who gets to come here is flawed.'

Corporations ARE the workforce market, which should indicate what kind of workforce is needed. It can only go from employer to employee, not vice versa. You can also look at that from company's perspective: You not only paid for someone's visa but also went through all the paperwork and then the person leaves in a month, just because he got a bigger offer. This should somehow work in both directions.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#257
post #243

The economist proposes getting rid of the rule that requires H1B workers remain within the company that sponsors them That sounds reasonable, but why then require that a company sponsor an immigrant in the first place? Why not let that immigrant choose where he or she will work? In fact, why not let the immigrant choose what to study, where to work, where to live, all in response to market signals? People have posted…

>That sounds reasonable, but why then require that a company sponsor an immigrant in the first place?

The point seems to be to let immigrants punish punitive or abusive situations themselves.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#258
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded. In fact I am in full agreement with mike row from the tv show "dirty jobs". There are plenty of jobs in the trades that pay damn good money. Americans just aren't doing them. Plumbers, carpenters, hvac, electrician, etc. Somehow Americans have evolved to see these jobs as beneath them or jobs that people don't respect. But the fact is trade skills are in high demand and if you've ever needed trade skill lab…

My brother is an electrician and makes worse money than I've seen administrative assistants make in tech shops. Partly, many of those trades have ceilings. Your salary doesn't always scale with skill and ambition like it can in IT.

I don't see how that is possible unless you work for someone else perhaps. If you are a licensed, bonded electrician and work for yourself (which a sizable portion of trade workers do) your earning potential is only limited by the amount of work you are willing to do. Stay busy and you make a lot, work one day a week and you starve. YMMV.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#259
I used to work at American Express as full time H1B employee, Arizona location as an Engineer I (10 years exp). They paid me 80K while they paid 110K starting salary for fresh American graduates from Arizona State for Engineer III position. (Engineer I > Engineer III). Also they were promoted from Engineer III to Engineer I within an year, while I did all the hard work with no promotions or salary raise.

H1B visa abuse at its best by an American Company. I am not in US anymore. Left it for good.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#260
post #243

The economist proposes getting rid of the rule that requires H1B workers remain within the company that sponsors them That sounds reasonable, but why then require that a company sponsor an immigrant in the first place? Why not let that immigrant choose where he or she will work? In fact, why not let the immigrant choose what to study, where to work, where to live, all in response to market signals? People have posted…

There is no rule that stops an H1B from transferring to another company.

It is a two way "at-will" law that supersedes any employment agreement.

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