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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

221–230 of 414 posts

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would essentially mean only silicon valley and NYC employers would get H1B employees. The entire South would face a skills shortage. The economist article actually provides a better solution. Visas shouldn't be tied to a particular employer. The employee should be able to transition to a new employer without a new visa application. There could be minimal paperwork to determine when a foreign worker is and whethe…

So that is how the free market works your not one of those gosh darned socialists are you :-) And I suspect that for a "brown" skinned persons the south is not exactly a welcoming environment.

>And I suspect that for a "brown" skinned persons the south is not exactly a welcoming environment.

That's very ignorant.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So isn't the obvious solution to move the allocation strategy from lottery to "auction" (highest payed employees get their visas first)?

That would essentially mean only silicon valley and NYC employers would get H1B employees. The entire South would face a skills shortage. The economist article actually provides a better solution. Visas shouldn't be tied to a particular employer. The employee should be able to transition to a new employer without a new visa application. There could be minimal paperwork to determine when a foreign worker is and whethe…

Well, if you remove the limit on the number of H1B visas then all is of course fine and dandy for employers and potential H1B visa holders like myself, but I do think you have to respect the fact that American workers have a legitimate interest in restricting the number of visas...

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. That was exactly my point with my first post. The only way you can get a job in this industry without being in a tech city is to have a degree. I don't understand why I'm being downvoted for pointing that out.

because it's untrue. you just aren't skilled or experienced enough to get a good job. "the only way..." usually is a made-up fact designed to fit a circumstance.

While not universally true, there are some geographic locations in the US that make that feel true.

The town I grew up in had 4 major tech employers.

- A weird segment of Department of Defense contractors that developed "mission simulators" (AKA first-person shooters) for the Army

- A banking umbrella company

- An insurance company

- A credit card payments processor

The state university in the same town had a Computer Science degree and offered a Bachelor's of Science with three different tracks/specializations:

- Games Programming: Focused on learning how to write 3D game engines. You learned C++, OpenGL, a bit of DirectX, a lot of Client/Server stuff like writing your own protocols on top of IP and UDP, and so on.

- Systems Programming: Dig into multi-threaded programming, write parsers as a way of learning how programming languages work, and magically segue into COBOL, IBM HLASM, DB2's unique takes on SQL, etc.

- Web Programming: JavaScript, ASP.NET, Windows IIS, Oracle.

Guess what those four employers filtered every candidate on?

Either 5+ years prior work experience littered with every keyword on the job description or a degree. There was literally zero way for someone without prior experience to get a degree, and because this wasn't Big Tech City X, even with 5+ years you pulled $65,000 tops.

Basically, the whole life cycle worked like this:

1) Tempt new students with cheaper CS degree compared to nationally famous college two hours away.

2) Use CS degree to snowflake their skills into a perfect match for a job with local employers.

3) Continuously have local employers show up on campus and talk up how cheap the Cost of Living is in small military town. Show hand-wavey "$65,000 here is the same as making $200,000 in San Francisco!" Neglect to explain how Social Security and Pensions/401ks work.

4) Convince students to "just get a few years under your belt" then go to Big Tech City with actual work experience.

5) Further pigeon hole skills and provide zero continuous learning, training, certification, or other ways of expanding employee's skill set, making it hard for them to find jobs in Big Tech City.

6) Profit by never paying anyone more than $80,000 to write software.

7) Avoid employing demographic profiles that are less likely to have kids. Grow your employee culture around "setting down roots". Profit even more by having almost perfect retention if you lump all four major employers together and colluding to maintain low wages.

EDIT: Formatting

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#224
post #43

Isn't a H-1B a form of indentured servitude? As in, if you change jobs you lose your visa? If yes, you don't get the competent ones but the cheap ones who have no choice. The good ones work on their terms for whomever they please. Edit: combine that with kls's answer about incentives, and you see why this visa system isn't quite working.

H-1Bs are transferable, but like any employment-based visa in the US short of permanent residence, it's tied to and requested by your employer.

What visa do you think exists for the "good ones"? Unless you're an "alien of extraordinary ability"--think major league athlete, widely published researcher, well-known artist, or successful serial entrepreneur--there is no other visa that lets you roll in and work under whatever arrangements you please.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A medical degree costs a lot more than the degree necessary to work in IT. I don't have the report off the top of my head, but doctors don't reach salary parity with their peers who got bachelors degrees until their mid-40s. Edit: I'm talking about lifetime earnings parity, not yearly parity. If you are marking $85k in IT as a 27 year old, you are way ahead of someone who starts making $175k at the age of 35 and has…

It's not salary parity per se, but rather that in the comparison the doctors are paying both the actual cost of medical school (and the servicing of the resulting debt) and the opportunity cost of spending seven-to-ten years in school/residency/fellowship before actually making a high salary. Meanwhile, their bachelor-only peers have been paid money, gained experience and gotten promoted.

Doctors can get 10 year loan forgiveness or even employer repayment. Then after age 40 (salary parity with a BS) the earnings compound. The doctor will be at 150k+ which is likely more than the BS holder alone. Plus the doctor doesn't have to worry about layoffs and is always employable.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#226
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Personally, I'd love to stop subsidizing the third world at the expense of American citizens. Developing countries need the US a lot more than the US needs them." That's the exact illusion most Americans live on. "On November 7, 2016, debt held by the public was $14.3 trillion or about 76% of the previous 12 months of GDP.[5][6][7][8] Intragovernmental holdings stood at $5.4 trillion, giving a combined total gross n…

Debt and GDP is only loosely related. Nations only need to service their debt not pay it down in some short time period. Thus, 14.3 trillion in (debt) * (current interest rate - inflation) or around 14.3 trillion * (2.423% - 2.20%) = 28.6 billion per year or ~1/500 GDP aka peanuts.

That's assuming there is still growth and inflation - who are going to be the buyers?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would essentially mean only silicon valley and NYC employers would get H1B employees. The entire South would face a skills shortage. The economist article actually provides a better solution. Visas shouldn't be tied to a particular employer. The employee should be able to transition to a new employer without a new visa application. There could be minimal paperwork to determine when a foreign worker is and whethe…

Well, if you remove the limit on the number of H1B visas then all is of course fine and dandy for employers and potential H1B visa holders like myself, but I do think you have to respect the fact that American workers have a legitimate interest in restricting the number of visas...

You missed the part about labor department reporting correct prevailing wages. That would prevent abuses.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#228
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is well known, but here's what you can do if you are not Indian or Chinese. Yes Mr. or Ms. French, you too. -Do a MS in CS or some STEM field from an accredited school. -Get a job with an employer willing to start green card process immediately (many will be willing since it means no uncertainity of H1b lottery) -Before your 3 yr OPT expires, you'll get your EAD (after doing PERM and I-140 on premium…

> Get a job with an employer willing to start green card process immediately (many will be willing since it means no uncertainity of H1b lottery) Good luck finding such an employer when you're fresh out of school. Also, a greencard takes ages to process.

A greencard takes ages to process only for Indians and Mainland Chinese. Not for other countries.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Businesses used to hire and train. There was once loyalty within corporate America. That is dead. I cannot debate this. However given our current situation and seeing our progress the rightful way would be for the government to invest more into education. Saudades is not going to help us. Being more pragmatic and planning accordingly will be much more beneficial

>invest more into education I suggest the opposite. The reason college tuition is so high is because the government backs those loans. Remove the government backing of loans thus lessening the availability of capitol to the educational system and I think you will find it will become vastly more affordable.

I am in India and the govt doesn't back any student loan yet college tuitions have ridiculously skyrocketed, heck, I paied less for my one yr college tuition than qhat my cousin is paying for his daughter's playgroup (I paid 50k INR for 1yr tuition and my neice's playgeoup charges 75k INR, don't know what the fuck they teach)

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#230
I am on an H1-B work authorization.

The company applied for my position with a salary of ~$100K/yr (on the LCA and the H1 application) but they actually paid me ~$240K/yr. This year and the next, it will be well north of $300-$330K/yr.

Why would they do this? Simple - to be able to pay me a prevailing wage and keep me in status in case the shit hits the fan.

If they applied to the government saying they'd pay me $240K/yr, and for some reason they had to give me a pay cut, I'd be out of status or we would have to make a less-confident amendment to my H1 auth. A pay cut amendment should be viewed with skepticism in my opinion and I would avoid it.

It's like underpromising and overdelivering.

My actual salary will never be reported in an H1 database. But it will be on my tax returns.

This isn't a common case but just something to keep in mind.

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