Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

lists.gnu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 493 posts

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#461

Post by wpietri »

anigbrowl wrote: post #415
wpietri wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I have a ton of closed-source software in my projects folder. That's not a business model. Neither is open-source software, where I take some of that stuff and throw it up on GitHub. A business model is where I repeatably create value for others and receive money in exchange. A modern software company can do that in a variety of ways, including selling training, documentation, support, custom features, consulting…

Repetition of your assertions isn't an argument. I make some software. You like what it does and want to use it. I ask for money. If the price is right you give me cash and I give you an executable file. How is that not a business model? And what's definitely not a business model is releasing something as open source and hoping that somebody gives me money. Businesses don't just happen. Somebody has to build them. I…

If you are now saying that open source is not a business model, then we agree. As far as I could tell, you were arguing vigorously that it was.

> I make some software. You like what it does and want to use it. I ask for money. If the price is right you give me cash and I give you an executable file. How is that not a business model?

That business model is selling executables that let your customers do some unspecified thing they care about. I have paid money to people who give me executables for both open- and closed-source software, so that description applies to both.

Making and releasing open-source software to the public, though, is not a business model. Which is why the Octave developer is struggling.

> I said the inability to easily monetize OSS is a limiting factor on its development because people need to eat and pay rent.

Right. But that's not specific to open-source software. Needing to eat, etc, is a limiting factor on making all software. And making almost anything else.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#462

Post by fsloth »

matt4077 wrote: post #278
chii wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are there really that many external contributions for most projects? and if there are, i would imagine that it's a "simple matter of accounting" to distribute the wealth received accordingly.

This isn't about the technical problems of assigning and distributing payouts. It's how it turns one of the most successful altruistic communities into just another domain of capitalism. There's this story from Freakonomics: A Kindergarten in Israel started to charge a fee for parents arriving late to pick up their children. Result: More parents would arrive late, because paying a fee was less of a burden than the ba…

" It's how it turns one of the most successful altruistic communities into just another domain of capitalism."

You hit the nail on the head what troubled me about my own suggestion of easy monetization but could not quite put into words.

Perhaps the few poverty striken maintainers are necessary outliers in this equation. I still feel irritated there can't be some simple opt-in value capture program for recognized bdfl's.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#463

Post by henrikschroder »

ufo wrote: post #300
dllthomas wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One can't conditionally license some code under GPL. You can release code under however many incompatible licenses as you'd like, as long as you own all of the code in question.

I think they were referring to the "GPL for non-profit" part of the comment. You either don' release it as GPL at all or you release it as GPL for everyone, which means that for-profit companies can use the software free of charge (as long as they obey the terms of the license).

If you own the software, you can grant specific people and institutions a GPL license for your software, and grant other people and institutions a commercial license (and refuse to grant them a GPL license for your software).

However, everyone who has received your software under the GPL can sublicense it to the people who you denied the GPL to. You can't forbid it, but they don't have to, and you can nicely ask them to never sublicense it.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#464

Post by henrikschroder »

simonh wrote: post #219
pksadiq wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GPL for non-profit projects, proprietary for enterprises. This is against the GNU GPL license terms. One can't conditionally license some code under GPL. Ie, a software released under GPL can't be restricted for some purpose (here, 'for non-profit'). The "no string should be attached" is for good. Say for example, a project says "For people to help learn writing code, I'm licensing my project under MIT License," it…

You're kind of correct in a pedantic nitpicky way. If you release code under the GPL you can't prevent anyone, such as an Enterprise, from using it under that license. But what you can do is also offer it under a commercial license, that commercial customers might be more comfortable with, and let the user choose which license they want to use it under. This is very common and it certainly seemed clear to me that thi…

Well, that enterprise has to receive the software under the GPL license first, and you can absolutely refuse to grant them that, in which case they have to find someone else who has received it under the GPL, and ask that party to sublicense it to the enterprise under the GPL.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#465

Post by henrikschroder »

ufo wrote: post #297
pksadiq wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GPL for non-profit projects, proprietary for enterprises. This is against the GNU GPL license terms. One can't conditionally license some code under GPL. Ie, a software released under GPL can't be restricted for some purpose (here, 'for non-profit'). The "no string should be attached" is for good. Say for example, a project says "For people to help learn writing code, I'm licensing my project under MIT License," it…

Selling software via a proprietary license to an enterprise can be bad for open source because it means that the enterprise doesn't need to obey the terms of the GPL. They are free to modify and adapt the code without contributing the changes back to the community, which kind of ruuing the point of the GPL in the first place. This method also only works if the copyright if fully owned by a single person or entity, wi…

Selling commercial license also gives you cold hard cash, with which you can buy ramen so that you can continue developing said software.

Contributing to the community is all good, but you know, eating is slightly higher on the priority list.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#466

Post by clairity »

jordigh wrote: post #366
radarsat1 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Two things though: * Developers, in general, are not business people. This may be different in Silicon Valley, but in a lot of the world, programmers have spent their life concentrating on one thing, learning to program. That doesn't mean they don't just "not know how" to start a business and find clients. It means they don't even know how to do the basic, first steps to registering one, knowing what to char…

These two points are very important. I've wanted to make Octave a business, but I just never knew how to start. I tried to find people who would help us get started, but the only ones I could find wanted to either compromise Octave's freedom (e.g. sell non-free extensions) or wanted some kind of way of turning Octave into a giant billion-dollar business very quickly. I couldn't find anyone who could help us do someth…

as mperham said (i use sidekiq btw), once you know how you want to charge people (license, support, book, conference, whatever) the mechanics of going about it on the business side are pretty straightforward. you need to set up a legal entity (corporation or LLC), get a bank account, and set up a (e-commerce) store front somewhere.

the nice thing is that octave is established enough that you won't need to do a lot of marketing to develop awareness of the product, which is usually the hard part. you also have some validation for your product (a large and successful competitor and a bunch of support contracts for octave). it sounds like, instead, the hard part for you is figuring out what you want to sell and getting going. people seem willing to help, so take them up on the offer! i'm also happy to lend an ear or a hand if need be. good luck!

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#467

Post by tluyben2 »

vijayr wrote: post #305

This is probably just wishful thinking, but I wish I had enough money to buy a decently large property and just let people stay there (everything free, including food/stay/healthcare etc) and work on projects like these, for as long as they want. Tech has so many rich people, I dunno why this can't be done. Even if it is just 100 high caliber people staying/working in such a community, they can generate immense value…

I rather just get paid to buy those things at home and work from there on OSS projects. Everyone has a different taste, but why not just sponsor projects with money so the author(s) can buy food/stay/healthcare themselves? Or at least fund towards that?

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#468

Post by pferde »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #450
pferde wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, he shouldn't do something he enjoys doing for free, because someone else somewhere might eventually want to make money off the same thing? That doesn't sound right.

Doing it is one thing. Distributing for free is taking it a step further. If enough people take those extra steps then eventually the value of programming as a skill is diminished for everyone.

I disagree. There will always be something extra someone needs programmed that they are willing to hire someone for.

By the way, your argument attempts to invalidate vast majority of FOSS out there.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#470

Post by palerdot »

sytelus wrote: post #177

Some ideas for OP: - Evangelize Octave in education, especially K-12. Community for Octave is rather small and K-12 education has lots of potential users and money. - Apply for NSF grants - Create specialized plugins that people might want to pay for commercial usage. Think of it as your consulting gig. - Write book not on just using Octave but something more generic like fun with math that can have larger audience.…

There a lot of variations of octave gold which can be applied to the product. I have not used octave and don't know whether the following applies to it - like a "tip from the author" in the GUI, custom themes etc.
Post reply on HN