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Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#61

Post by flukus »

snogglethorpe wrote: post #40
tropo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech workers in SV seem to hate Trump, but tech workers are not only in SV. There are also tech workers at defense contractors all across the deep south, and they definitely do not hate Trump. They might roll their eyes at his antics or prefer a tougher stance on Russia, but "lock her up" is a very real desire. The H1B issue kind of resonates with them, since many are older people with families, though obviously the…

I'm sure there are some tech workers who support Trump, but education seems to be one of the best predictors for who voted against Trump, and tech workers are probably on average better educated than the general populace...

The most educated also tend to cluster around areas where a Trump vote would have been a waste.

I wonder if the higher educated are also more prone to the "shy tory" effect.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#62

Post by pkaye »

mavelikara wrote: post #58
pkaye wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The L1 has no quota so it is used to get around the H1B quota. They just have to form a shell company in the other country, have employees stick around for an year and then come over under the L1 visa. There are no education requirements unlike an H1B. There are no prevailing wage requirements unlike an H1B.

> They just have to form a shell company in the other country, have employees stick around for an year and then come over under the L1 visa. That does not sound easy as you make it out to be.

Not easy but if you are hiring enough employees then it can be cost effective.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#63

Post by jlardinois »

talklittle wrote: post #56
jlardinois wrote: post #46

Two questions (one fact-based, one opinion) 1. This article notes that the various proposed H1B reforms would require (for some definition of require) that companies make an effort to hire Americans before offering positions to visa workers. Isn't this already a requirement? 2. I agree $60,000 is a very low minimum. But how is $130,000 reasonable? Even in this industry that's a significant salary.

> 2. I agree $60,000 is a very low minimum. But how is $130,000 reasonable? Even in this industry that's a significant salary. The current administration is businesspeople. They know $130k sounds too high, it's anchoring for negotiations. It'll go lower. But also it's kind of the point of the reform being pushed, right? If somehow $130k is passed, it will obviously disqualify most foreign workers from acquiring these…

The 130k minimum was proposed by a Democratic congresswoman, not the administration.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#64

Post by gotofritz »

rdtsc wrote: post #52
marcus_holmes wrote: post #8

This'll be interesting. Tech workers hate Trump, and have been forcing SV bosses to say bad things about him. But this move is clearly going to benefit us (well, I'm in Australia so not affected directly, but "us" as tech workers). Raising tech salaries and reducing the ridiculous exploitation of immigrant tech workers is good. SV bosses would clearly like to continue paying less for tech workers, and the visa progra…

Not all tech workers hate Trump. Those that don't probably won't be posting about it here, advertising it at work if they work at Google, Facebook, Github or some place like that. It might be comforting to think that it was only those dirty uneducated white supremacists who voted for Trump, but I don't think that is reality. That's called living in bubble.

Not all, but most.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#65

Post by snogglethorpe »

flukus wrote: post #61
snogglethorpe wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there are some tech workers who support Trump, but education seems to be one of the best predictors for who voted against Trump, and tech workers are probably on average better educated than the general populace...

The most educated also tend to cluster around areas where a Trump vote would have been a waste. I wonder if the higher educated are also more prone to the "shy tory" effect.

The education correlation is also supported actual voting results, by seeing how voting results correlated with education levels in each voting region.

So it doesn't seem to be just an artifact of polling behavior.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#66

Post by xbmcuser »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #27
marcus_holmes wrote: post #8

This'll be interesting. Tech workers hate Trump, and have been forcing SV bosses to say bad things about him. But this move is clearly going to benefit us (well, I'm in Australia so not affected directly, but "us" as tech workers). Raising tech salaries and reducing the ridiculous exploitation of immigrant tech workers is good. SV bosses would clearly like to continue paying less for tech workers, and the visa progra…

> Raising tech salaries and reducing the ridiculous exploitation of immigrant tech workers is good. > tech Are we able to replace "tech" with other types of workers? Or is nationalism only ok when it protects this particular class of workers?

Depends if just having a larger salary is important to you or do you want religious idiots out of the education system for your kids and that your gay relatives and friends have the same rights as you if all that is important to you or just having more money

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#67

Post by xiphias »

pkaye wrote: post #29
WalterBright wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that any applicant can set their salary requirements at $300,000 and nobody else can be hired until they are?

I think by highest paid applicant they meant have an auction system instead of a lottery system. The highest paid job offers up to the quota will get accepted instead of picking them randomly. But there is still issues like valuation of stock options in such offers. Also cash strapped startups may have a hard time against big companies like Google. Maybe it needs to be a combination of pay and some random factor?

I think it's totally fine if only base salary, guaranteed minimum bonus and maybe liquid stock options are used in the calculations. Most people here who had experience with startups wrote that non-founding employee options should be valued at 0 anyways. Also Google doesn't abuse workers like some startups do, so it adds extra safety to immigrants.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#68

Post by flukus »

snogglethorpe wrote: post #65
flukus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most educated also tend to cluster around areas where a Trump vote would have been a waste. I wonder if the higher educated are also more prone to the "shy tory" effect.

The education correlation is also supported actual voting results, by seeing how voting results correlated with education levels in each voting region. So it doesn't seem to be just an artifact of polling behavior.

But would an educated Trump voter in California or New York bother coming out to vote?

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#69

Post by pliftkl »

kyriakos wrote: post #39

Won't this push companies to hire remote workers as contractors instead for even lower salaries?

This. Many people (usually on the right) argue that increased minimum wages cost people jobs because companies that rely on low-wage, low-skilled will simply automate, because the companies are going to follow basic economic principles. A high wage barrier to H1B workers makes hiring overseas workers more attractive, and if companies can get the model working well (where offshore tech teams do a great job), that's worse in the long run for American tech workers.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#70

Post by sjg007 »

jlardinois wrote: post #46

Two questions (one fact-based, one opinion) 1. This article notes that the various proposed H1B reforms would require (for some definition of require) that companies make an effort to hire Americans before offering positions to visa workers. Isn't this already a requirement? 2. I agree $60,000 is a very low minimum. But how is $130,000 reasonable? Even in this industry that's a significant salary.

There is a requirement to hire Americans first but there are loop holes and shenanigans. One is that the wage offered is too low so no qualified American applies b/c they are already making more. I guess that this is what the 130k would fix. Jobs are advertised in weird ways either internally (a paper print out on a board in a company room somewhere). And you have the job interview itself which can always be gamed.
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