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GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

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Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#231

The most frustrating thing about working remote was the complete lack of documentation around anything -- meetings, requirements, internal frameworks/libraries, etc. Good for them for emphasizing documentation. I lost track of the amount of times I was told to "look at the source code" when asking about documentation for the internal framework. Also fun was being assigned a feature and having it's functionality expla…

You seem to work at a horrible place, with abrasive characters. It begins with the fact that the company's code needs documentation. I'm a big proponent of Robert C. Martin's "Clean Code" and the idea that code should read like prose - by reading the code, its purpose and ideas should come across naturally. It ends with people asking "Didn't we already talk about this?". Is this your first job? Don't let yourself get…

> You seem to work at a horrible place, with abrasive characters.

Or a normal place with poor-mediocre leadership.

Documentation doesn't happen by magic, and documentation is a skill. If it's not a priority from management, folks will be heads down getting their own tasks done, not thinking about what the other person/team needs.

Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#232
post #188
post #39

Given the complete backlash I'm seeing on HN it seems like transparency actually hurt you. Very sad.

We're still committed to transparency even if it means taking a few lumps now and then, it's better in the long run and it's baked into everything we do.

Please keep it up. We need more companies like you.

Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The immediate problem with the method of developing your formula that is described is that it assumed that the pay of your staff before you had a systematic formula already accurately reflected prevailing market wages in the locality of every employee. And, for US locations, BLS data is readily available publicly. While that may not have been a suitable source for a worldwide formula, it would have at least been a su…

You are right that we used compensation from before we had the systematic formula. However, we then repeated the exercise (of finding linear correlations with various COL indices) when we had a larger cohort but before the formula had been implemented systematically, and it still pointed to the use of the Rent Index instead of another index. You're also right that we need the calculator to work worldwide, and I suspe…

BTW, I know I've been kind of hard (fair, I think, but not gentle) on you guys in this thread, and I want you to know that I really appreciate how well you've taken it and how responsive you've been.

Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#234
post #58

160 employees remote is impressive and commendable. Zapier is fully remote as well (but half the size in employee count). I'd say "write everything down" is a great shortcut to the sorts of practices you need to cultivate. We've also noticed that over-communicating is critical but hard - it is surprising the things that are "yeah yeah, we know" to some but are "oh we're doing that?" to others. This is only natural -…

Honestly, I haven't seen a company that does the hybrid remote/on-site thing well. I'm sure they exist, but every time I've worked at one the people who were remote were out of the loop on almost everything. Hybrid remote/on-site requires some great discipline. If you have a watercooler chat with someone about a feature, it's easy to forget that a remote colleague wasn't there for the discussion/not document what was…

I work for a hybrid remote/on-site company - we have made it work well. The most important thing I found is to make sure all of the stakeholders are present online for a serious discussion on whatever it is of concern. As soon as one is cut out of the loop, trouble starts.

Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#235
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be contrarian here and say that I actually hate that most remote companies make frequent on-site travel part of the job and pretend like it's a perk. Travel, including on-site visits and "group retreats", are not perks for me. I have a family and a life where I'm at and part of the reason I like to be remote is because it allows me to be productive with minimal impact on other things (e.g., don't have to waste 2…

It is contrarian. As someone who has worked remotely to a significant degree for quite a while, I also find face to face get togethers (whether in an office or elsewhere) incredibly valuable. You're welcome to your own preferences of course but, as someone on a largely remote team, I consider regular get-togethers in various forms pretty much essential.

Just curious, what specific value do you derive from these events that makes them "essential"? While I understand that a lot of people who may not have a lot going on at home may find them enjoyable, I really don't think it can be characterized as essential for accomplishing the job tasks.

If face-to-face communication is "pretty much essential", what's the argument for continuing to run the company as a remote/distributed enterprise? Isn't the whole concept of telecommuting predicated on the fact that face time is not essential to performing the job function?

Leaving aside the personal interruption represented by such events, I don't understand the philosophical underpinnings. To me, it seems like someone said "There's not enough chance for politics and cliques to emerge over IRC [which is incorrect btw], let's make sure we all get together physically at least once every 3 months so we can find new things to take petty offense at."

Again, I think that well-run open-source projects provide some really good examples of the right way to do a distributed company. They usually have one big pow-wow per year, and it's a convention with planned talks, networking events, etc., and of course, attendance is voluntary and the meetings are transcribed and broadcast. Debate and consideration occurs online where everyone can participate.

If a massive project like the Linux kernel can get by without having such events every 3 months, why can't $Random_Startup?

I've been a full-time remote worker at the same company for the last few years. I'm the only remote worker on my team and one of a small handful dispersed throughout the company. I've been back to the head office once. It's absolutely true that there are negatives and downsides to being remote, but nothing that jeopardizes my ability to perform my duties.

Beyond that, I did several years fully remote as a full-time contractor. Some clients were local and I would meet with them face-to-face up to a couple of hours a week, but the majority were non-local. I only met a few of these people in person and I don't feel that impacted my ability to do my job.

Like so much else in contemporary tech culture, my opinion is that it traces back to putting single 24-year-olds at the helm and making everything subservient to their whims. They think it's cool to rent out a vacation home on a beach in Belize and fly 10 people out to set up camp in there for 2 weeks. Grown-ups with spouses and kids or other significant non-work obligations are likely to be less enthusiastic.

Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#236

>> 2:41 – GitLab values boring solutions: our product should be exceptional Exceptional products have exceptional UX. Gitlab IMHO has the worst UX of all git based products out there, I much rather take BitBucket over Gitlab. I tried using Gitlab, but no, I would much rather pay the 7$ to GH for my private repos. I sincerely hope they make an exceptional product. And 'should' better be 'must'!

Hey Deepak, thanks for the feedback. We've built out a UX team and improving that aspect of the product is high on our list of priorities, but please feel free to reach out if you have any specific issues. Happy to document those for you.

Hey Amanda, I would list the following: 1. Intelligent profile: shows my top 6 active repositories, ability to mark work I do as salient so that shows up on the dashboard in summary instead of my recent issues/merge requests etc, the salient work marking should be automated at a future point of time (ML). I really think of this as an automated Developer Story in the long run. 2. Recent area: Where you show the contributions in the last year, recent issues/merge requests etc. 3. Code Reviews: A list view on the left which shows all the files changed and a cart where I can add multiple files (ex: a.py, b.py, c.py) to show how the changes my be inconsistent etc to a peer. A 4 quadrant view will be very handy.

These are the top 3 things I can think of, based on my interaction so far. I wish Gitlab success. Thanks.

Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I haven't seen a company that does the hybrid remote/on-site thing well. I'm sure they exist, but every time I've worked at one the people who were remote were out of the loop on almost everything. Hybrid remote/on-site requires some great discipline. If you have a watercooler chat with someone about a feature, it's easy to forget that a remote colleague wasn't there for the discussion/not document what was…

Yep, this is absolutely correct in my experiences. I'll chime in, since I'm a remote employee at a company that is hybrid remote/on-site but with the vast majority of employees being on-site. Long story short: I actually started on-site but negotiated part-time remote. Then after about a year of that my spouse accepted a dream job offer on the other side of the state and so it was no question that we were moving. The…

I don't see why your manager missed the point. If the "vast majority" of employees are onsite, then it seems reasonable to expect the few who aren't to come visit, or otherwise change their working style, rather than the majority to change their working practices for the few. Particularly if it's the same state in the same country and not, say, a 20-hour flight from Bangalore to San Francisco.

Am I missing something?

Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My local city, but the data isn't so much mine as data that the US government shares. Sacramento, CA. Mean Salary (per latest BLS data) [0] for Software Developer, Applications: $107,540; for Web Developer: $78,050 Sacramento, CA Gitlab locality pay index: 0.39+0.25=0.51 Vs. New York City, same BLS figures [1]: $108,770/$81,430 NYC Gitlab locality pay index: 1.00+0.25=1.25 Sac/NYC Salary Ratio (BLS): 0.989/0.958 Sac/…

Thanks; this is useful. I've made an issue ( https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/organization/issues/23 ) to make sure we cross check BLS data with the calculator.

I'm not sure what it is about small Midwestern cities but the calculator seems to dislike them. The calculated rates for Cincinnati are roughly half of market rate here. I understand the calculator will not be perfect in every city worldwide but it might be better to have no calculator as the current one is extremely discouraging even though I like GitLab.

Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#239
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I haven't seen a company that does the hybrid remote/on-site thing well. I'm sure they exist, but every time I've worked at one the people who were remote were out of the loop on almost everything. Hybrid remote/on-site requires some great discipline. If you have a watercooler chat with someone about a feature, it's easy to forget that a remote colleague wasn't there for the discussion/not document what was…

MY company does hybrid remote/on-site, and one of the best ways to mitigate issues with off-site communication is part-time work from home. Since on-site workers spend some of their time as remote workers, everyone has a good idea of what's required to empower remote developers. It's not always roses and rainbows, but it definitely helps.

Hybrid remote/on-site method should only be used as a migration path for the remote-first method from on-site, else it does not work well.

Re: GitLab’s Secret to Managing Employees in 160 Locations: Write Everything Down

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks; this is useful. I've made an issue ( https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/organization/issues/23 ) to make sure we cross check BLS data with the calculator.

I'm not sure what it is about small Midwestern cities but the calculator seems to dislike them. The calculated rates for Cincinnati are roughly half of market rate here. I understand the calculator will not be perfect in every city worldwide but it might be better to have no calculator as the current one is extremely discouraging even though I like GitLab.

It's based on rent. Each city is punished in proportion to how much cheaper its rent is than the rent in NYC. As NYC is one of the top 5 most expensive cities worldwide for real estate [0], any city marginally more reasonable is going to get pummeled.

[0] http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/most-expensive-cities

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