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Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#51

Post by xbeta »

BurningFrog wrote: post #32
foobarian wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big problem with H1-B is that it's hard to switch jobs. While an American engineer can easily quit and go somewhere else, a non-resident is pretty much forced to leave the country. This makes the worker's bargaining position very weak, and overall lowers the market rate for immigrants.

It used to be hard to switch jobs under H1B, but that got fixed ~15 years ago. The visas are now pretty much transferrable to another employer. What's still a problem is that Green Card applications are tied to a specific employer, so that clock will be reset any time you switch jobs.

Not really. AFAIK, after you obtained a priority date with an approved I-140, you can still switch job while keeping your priority date. But you need the new company to transfer H1-B and re-sponsor the GC application again given the job skills are matching.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#52

Post by rdtsc »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #8

This'll be interesting. Tech workers hate Trump, and have been forcing SV bosses to say bad things about him. But this move is clearly going to benefit us (well, I'm in Australia so not affected directly, but "us" as tech workers). Raising tech salaries and reducing the ridiculous exploitation of immigrant tech workers is good. SV bosses would clearly like to continue paying less for tech workers, and the visa progra…

Not all tech workers hate Trump. Those that don't probably won't be posting about it here, advertising it at work if they work at Google, Facebook, Github or some place like that.

It might be comforting to think that it was only those dirty uneducated white supremacists who voted for Trump, but I don't think that is reality. That's called living in bubble.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#54

Post by tn13 »

Isn't this the same "leaked executive" order that was being discussed few days back ? This news items has nothing new. Also, government's "American First" approach would always result into another mess like "war on drugs". Somehow American workers should come first but not the American company!

> Raising tech salaries and reducing the ridiculous exploitation of immigrant tech workers is good.

Why not raise it to $200K or another arbitrary number if increasing wages are a good thing ? All increased wages would mean american corporations will be less competitive and hence it hurts average American consumer who perhaps is more poorer than the tech worker.

I sense "American First" is more of a "No Browns and Asians" that is likely to hurt entire tech industry.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#55

Post by Veratyr »

qball wrote: post #17
kcorbitt wrote: post #5

I'm in favor of vastly raising the H1-B cap, or eliminating it altogether. But. If we are going to have an H1-B cap, I think awarding the visas to the highest-paid applicants is probably the most fair way to administer it. I know of no better way to objectively measure "in high demand" than "well-paid."

>I know of no better way to objectively measure "in high demand" than "well-paid." Sure, if the entire US had uniform costs of living. However, it's only the Bay Area that has costs (and local competition and investors) that keep those salaries at their current heights. Every other company not based in Southern California who can't find workers will suffer, whereas before they'd at least have a chance, albeit a slim…

> Every other company not based in Southern California who can't find workers will suffer

Well they'll lose the advantage of being located somewhere with a low cost of living but I don't think I'd call it "suffering". Engineers in other areas should be able to produce as much value to the company as those in California and the company should be just as willing to pay for that value as a company in California.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#56

Post by talklittle »

jlardinois wrote: post #46

Two questions (one fact-based, one opinion) 1. This article notes that the various proposed H1B reforms would require (for some definition of require) that companies make an effort to hire Americans before offering positions to visa workers. Isn't this already a requirement? 2. I agree $60,000 is a very low minimum. But how is $130,000 reasonable? Even in this industry that's a significant salary.

> 2. I agree $60,000 is a very low minimum. But how is $130,000 reasonable? Even in this industry that's a significant salary.

The current administration is businesspeople. They know $130k sounds too high, it's anchoring for negotiations. It'll go lower.

But also it's kind of the point of the reform being pushed, right? If somehow $130k is passed, it will obviously disqualify most foreign workers from acquiring these visas, and maybe the current quota of visas wouldn't be met. Then the quota may be lowered in the future, further limiting the visa program.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#57

Post by Veratyr »

jlardinois wrote: post #46

Two questions (one fact-based, one opinion) 1. This article notes that the various proposed H1B reforms would require (for some definition of require) that companies make an effort to hire Americans before offering positions to visa workers. Isn't this already a requirement? 2. I agree $60,000 is a very low minimum. But how is $130,000 reasonable? Even in this industry that's a significant salary.

> I agree $60,000 is a very low minimum. But how is $130,000 reasonable? Even in this industry that's a significant salary.

I think the point is that the minimum should be far above what you'd expect to pay for a US worker, to add solid monetary incentive to hire locally first.

If the average salary for a "highly skilled" worker is $90k (seems reasonable) but you've attempted to find a US worker at an unusually high $130k (as you're required to do) and not found one, it ensures that your imported worker is not competing against the average local talent.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#58

Post by mavelikara »

pkaye wrote: post #24
purity_resigns wrote: post #7

What are ways companies skirt L1 laws? I always assumed offshoring was done through a country with the laxest visa laws possible.

The L1 has no quota so it is used to get around the H1B quota. They just have to form a shell company in the other country, have employees stick around for an year and then come over under the L1 visa. There are no education requirements unlike an H1B. There are no prevailing wage requirements unlike an H1B.

> They just have to form a shell company in the other country, have employees stick around for an year and then come over under the L1 visa.

That does not sound easy as you make it out to be.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#59

Post by BurningFrog »

xbeta wrote: post #51
BurningFrog wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be hard to switch jobs under H1B, but that got fixed ~15 years ago. The visas are now pretty much transferrable to another employer. What's still a problem is that Green Card applications are tied to a specific employer, so that clock will be reset any time you switch jobs.

Not really. AFAIK, after you obtained a priority date with an approved I-140, you can still switch job while keeping your priority date. But you need the new company to transfer H1-B and re-sponsor the GC application again given the job skills are matching.

OK. I'm out of the game since over 10 years, so my info is old.

H1Bs today have it so easy... Back in my day, we had to file all paperwork uphill in the snow!

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#60

Post by tropo »

dragonwriter wrote: post #41
tropo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech workers in SV seem to hate Trump, but tech workers are not only in SV. There are also tech workers at defense contractors all across the deep south, and they definitely do not hate Trump. They might roll their eyes at his antics or prefer a tougher stance on Russia, but "lock her up" is a very real desire. The H1B issue kind of resonates with them, since many are older people with families, though obviously the…

> but "lock her up" is a very real desire. Given that Trump abandoned that almost immediately after being announced as President-Elect, how is that a reason to support him now?

1. Support and hate are relative. Given that the alternative was somebody they really really seriously want locked up, even a Trump who fails to carry that out is obviously preferred.

2. It's possible he said things in order to avoid encouraging a pardon.

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