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2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

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Re: 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

#241

Post by devwastaken »

deathanatos wrote: post #226
kcorbitt wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we'll probably end up in a house with a yard eventually, I don't feel a pressing need for that lifestyle at the moment. I am factoring in taxes and cost of living. The difference doesn't make up for the $55k wage gap. It's possible that I could have done better than $105k if I had looked harder, but based on how much my friends in that area make I doubt it. My salary in the Bay Area also has a lot more headroom…

> While we'll probably end up in a house with a yard eventually How, might I ask? Assuming $1.5M for a townhouse or a house in the Bay Area, Google's mortgage calculator says ~7k monthly in payments. At $160k and 25% tax, you're left w/ 10k/mo; you'd be spending 70% of your income on housing, not counting maintenance. You'd need to make a significant downpayment (which even then, IDK if it helps, since I've seen hous…

Heck, rather than spend that much on a home in the city, a house in a rural northern state will only run you around 100K, maybe 200K for something newer. The remote work dream.

Re: 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

#242

Post by seanmcdirmid »

deathanatos wrote: post #226
kcorbitt wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we'll probably end up in a house with a yard eventually, I don't feel a pressing need for that lifestyle at the moment. I am factoring in taxes and cost of living. The difference doesn't make up for the $55k wage gap. It's possible that I could have done better than $105k if I had looked harder, but based on how much my friends in that area make I doubt it. My salary in the Bay Area also has a lot more headroom…

> While we'll probably end up in a house with a yard eventually How, might I ask? Assuming $1.5M for a townhouse or a house in the Bay Area, Google's mortgage calculator says ~7k monthly in payments. At $160k and 25% tax, you're left w/ 10k/mo; you'd be spending 70% of your income on housing, not counting maintenance. You'd need to make a significant downpayment (which even then, IDK if it helps, since I've seen hous…

You can make money in one place, save it, then spend it somewhere else. This is why people in nice but cheap places are so afraid of Californians.

Re: 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

#243

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ghaff wrote: post #191
Amezarak wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Gas. The Federal government subsidizes gasoline. Suburban/Rural residents drive more and consume more gas than urban residents who are more likely to use public transit. There is in fact a federal fuel tax , in addition to state fuel taxes. There is no direct gasoline subsidy. Some people argue that the tax deductions and structures used by drilling companies are a kind of subsidy, but that's debatable and most o…

>The larger argument that infrastructure is cheaper when population density is higher is, of course, trivially true. I'm not sure even that is trivially true. Infrastructure projects in dense cities (which is what most people are talking about here when they say "cities") can be extremely expensive. See Boston Big Dig, Manhattan Second Avenue Subway, etc. Yes, they serve a lot of people. Cheap they ain't.

Extremely expensive but used by millions a day. The reason they are expensive is because so many people are already there, and construction has to limit impact to very significant economic activity that must still go on while the work is done. "Ya we could do it cheaper if we just cut off traffic for a couple of years, we'd save a few billion at the cost of a hundred billion in lost opportunity."

Re: 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

#244

Post by seanmcdirmid »

logfromblammo wrote: post #195
CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We live in a 680 sq ft one-bedroom apartment in an older development ($2200/mo). Whoa, that's almost double the estimated mortgage for the 5 bedroom houses with an acre of land my family has been looking at purchasing. I'll never move to the SF Bay Area. I encourage others not to, either. Get the companies there to open up to remote employees instead.

And here I am, like a schmuck, paying almost 11.5% of my gross income in rent, on a 3 bedr/2.5 bath freestanding house. I think I'd have to earn more than $360k to get even close to that in SF/SV. About the only places a median-priced house is more affordable than where I am now, relative to median income, are Illinois, Ohio, Iowa, Indiana, and selected places in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and upstate New Yor…

A nice big detached house just isn't my priority, it's not something I want. In fact, they personally sicken me, is much rather have a more cozy apartment with one or two bedrooms. Oh, and nice weather and a thriving culture scene would be nice (yes, I live in California).

If companies followed your advice, they would lose way too many employees, it turns out many tech people at the high end value different things and know exactly what they are doing. We already know where the big house people are.

Re: 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

#245

Post by pmoriarty »

davidw wrote: post #77
r0m4n0 wrote: post #27

I have a much different cost of living equation supporting my decision to live in the bay. The big expense is obviously rent, which I'm sure they have represented... The average 1 bedroom in Austin around $1,000 and in SF let's say $3,300. Difference of $2,300 * 12 = $27,600. After that, that other $40,000 cost of living difference seems a bit of a stretch. In SF, my company buys breakfast, lunch, dinner and my trans…

> breakfast, lunch, dinner That's great if you're young, but there does come a time in many people's lives when they like to spend at least 2 of those meals with spouses and kids.

Not only that, but when the company buys meals, the employees often spend that time at work, with their coworkers, talking about work, and maybe even eating at their desks while working. It's not a "free" meal by any means. The company wins out big time when that happens.

Instead of such a "free" meal, I'd rather just get paid more and then pay for my meal myself, by myself or with a friend outside of work, or just take the hour off to run errands or do whatever else I want/need to do.

Re: 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

#247

Post by pmoriarty »

zip1234 wrote: post #149
vecinu wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the recent crime/safety reputation its gotten is keeping people (like me) away. I wouldn't move to Detroit even if they paid me $150k, I just don't feel like the risk is worth it.

I live in a Detroit suburb. Currently work there as well but know plenty of people that work downtown. Easy drive to downtown but there are plenty of jobs in very nice suburbs. The city is also nicer than you think. Still fairly rough but improving every day.

I wonder how it compares to Oakland, another city with a very bad reputation, where a lot of techs in the Bay Area don't mind living because of how relatively cheap it is.

Re: 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

#248

Post by RestlessMind »

SFBA is great for (at least) the following types of people:

1. Those who are completely happy with small apartments or long commutes. Typically coming from populous city in a developing country, SFBA traffic was an improvement (if not for duration, then at least for discipline and stress levels). Also, apartments are decent sized compared to what one is used to back home. Cheap cars are still good enough compared to what you had back home. And savings are HUGE, especially if you carry on the frugal lifestyle.

2. Those who are frugal. Because if you can save a higher percentage of your salary, then SFBA savings would outpace salaries in (most) other regions even accounting for high COL

3. Those who seek tech opportunities to make big money - eg. getting within top 10-15% engineers in GooSoftFaceFlix, who can easily earn >400K per year including Salary, Bonus and RSUs. If you are decently smart (no need of Turing Award smarts), work hard and position yourself right for growth, its not rocket science to get promoted into top 10-15% ranks within 6-8 years. Such opportunities in tech are relatively fewer in (most) other places.

Source: been in all 3 buckets at various points in my life; observed tons of my friends who were in similar boats.

Edit: clarified wording

Re: 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

#249

Post by davidgay »

ghaff wrote: post #186
akiselev wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is if you have a preference for urban environments and your choice is between SF/NYC/London/etc and Salt Lake City, where it feels like every other street is as wide as the average block in another city. To each their own of course.

Well, in SLC you are about an hour drive away from arguably the best skiing on the planet. To each their own of course.:-)

To be fair, SF is far closer to and more practical for good skiing than London or NYC.

And yes, living in the Bay Area, I miss (from Switzerland) skiing being an hour's drive away. It's all relative...

Re: 2017 State of Global Tech Salaries

#250

Post by tropo »

Woofles wrote: post #229
davidjnelson wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about size or fanciness. Urban areas and housing have significant air, water, and noise pollution.

Right, and what the poster above you was saying is that people will sacrifice in that regard (or they simply don't care) to gain the benefits of living in an urban area like the culture, food, close proximity to bars and nightlife, etc. This isn't a black and white issue and it always disheartens me when people are so quick to trash the Bay Area.

So, being one of those suburban family people, I'm curious. What is this "night life" you speak of, and do you actually enjoy it? Is it more theoretically enjoyable than actually enjoyable?

My understanding is probably pretty bad: You pay about a hundred dollars each for a baby sitter, a taxi, and admission to the venue. ($300 so far, will be $400) There is very loud music that prevents conversation and may damage your ears, and you don't get to skip songs that you hate. You can get drinks, like beer for $10 and a cup/glass/whatever of wine for $30. You are expected to dance, by yourself or rubbing on a stranger's crotch/rear, but not traditional. Maybe you just stand near the bar and drink. That's it; this is how city folk enjoy nightlife. On your way home you get mugged.

I picture the awful experiences of high school dances, but very drunk and very expensive and you don't know anybody. It seems so empty. You're with people, yet in a certain way it seems lonely.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "the culture". It seems that there would be numerous cultures. If you meet a random person, the chance that they share your culture would be pretty low. This cuts down on empathy and creates misunderstandings. If you just like to gawk at other cultures, you'd do better to occasionally visit less-diluted places like Kyoto or rural Japan. You can also find American culture in many rural parts of the country.

We do have bars in suburbia, sadly, though I've never been to one. I don't think I'm missing anything...?

We also have food, not even counting the road kill. :-) Head over to Kentucky to experience a fried-brain sandwich. I guess you're implying that you actually get your meals at those places that charge tens or even hundreds of dollars per plate and then still expect tips? This too strikes me as odd and difficult to understand. You have to travel there. Most of those places won't let you eat barefoot, topless, or bottomless. Your kid screams and everybody gives you the hate-glare, or some other kid screams and you give them the hate-glare. The food contains ingredients that you wouldn't use. Maybe your allergies get ignored or your credit card gets stolen. You can't just relax in your own place, safe and secure and private. You can't pace around while you eat.

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