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Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#31

Post by DanAndersen »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #19
WalterBright wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that any applicant can set their salary requirements at $300,000 and nobody else can be hired until they are?

I was wondering about this same thing. Highest paid doesn't equate to highest skilled at all. The scheme seems more designed to punish companies from hiring immigrants than actually ensuring only high quality employees make their way to Silicon Valley. Admittedly, I think increasing the $60,000 figure seems reasonable. It should be set at a figure (and updated regularly enough) such that it's slightly above the avera…

>The scheme seems more designed to punish companies from hiring immigrants than actually ensuring only high quality employees make their way to Silicon Valley.

I'd say you're exactly right (perhaps replace "punish" with "disincentivize" for more broad agreement), as concerns about the place of domestic labor in the face of foreign labor was the major campaign issue, rather than a desire on the part of the US electorate to refine/optimize the talent pool of Bay area international workers.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#32

Post by BurningFrog »

foobarian wrote: post #23
kcorbitt wrote: post #5

I'm in favor of vastly raising the H1-B cap, or eliminating it altogether. But. If we are going to have an H1-B cap, I think awarding the visas to the highest-paid applicants is probably the most fair way to administer it. I know of no better way to objectively measure "in high demand" than "well-paid."

I think a big problem with H1-B is that it's hard to switch jobs. While an American engineer can easily quit and go somewhere else, a non-resident is pretty much forced to leave the country. This makes the worker's bargaining position very weak, and overall lowers the market rate for immigrants.

It used to be hard to switch jobs under H1B, but that got fixed ~15 years ago. The visas are now pretty much transferrable to another employer.

What's still a problem is that Green Card applications are tied to a specific employer, so that clock will be reset any time you switch jobs.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#33

Post by tropo »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #8

This'll be interesting. Tech workers hate Trump, and have been forcing SV bosses to say bad things about him. But this move is clearly going to benefit us (well, I'm in Australia so not affected directly, but "us" as tech workers). Raising tech salaries and reducing the ridiculous exploitation of immigrant tech workers is good. SV bosses would clearly like to continue paying less for tech workers, and the visa progra…

Tech workers in SV seem to hate Trump, but tech workers are not only in SV. There are also tech workers at defense contractors all across the deep south, and they definitely do not hate Trump. They might roll their eyes at his antics or prefer a tougher stance on Russia, but "lock her up" is a very real desire. The H1B issue kind of resonates with them, since many are older people with families, though obviously the competition with H1Bs is indirect due to citizenship requirements at defense contractors.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#34

Post by c0nducktr »

flukus wrote: post #26
Alex3917 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Raising tech salaries and reducing the ridiculous exploitation of immigrant tech workers is good. Why not keep the H-1B floor at 60,000, but require employers to contribute another 60,000 to a fund to pay for Americans to be retrained as tech workers?

Because the same companies will open training programs that provide $50 worth of education to the Americans and pocket the rest. Probably even make them do mandatory job training alongside the H1bs and triple dip.

Kinda like a certain defunct university....

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#35

Post by astrodust »

Hyperborian wrote: post #18
marcus_holmes wrote: post #8

This'll be interesting. Tech workers hate Trump, and have been forcing SV bosses to say bad things about him. But this move is clearly going to benefit us (well, I'm in Australia so not affected directly, but "us" as tech workers). Raising tech salaries and reducing the ridiculous exploitation of immigrant tech workers is good. SV bosses would clearly like to continue paying less for tech workers, and the visa progra…

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Not if the hands have fallen off.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#36

Post by kavok »

qball wrote: post #17
kcorbitt wrote: post #5

I'm in favor of vastly raising the H1-B cap, or eliminating it altogether. But. If we are going to have an H1-B cap, I think awarding the visas to the highest-paid applicants is probably the most fair way to administer it. I know of no better way to objectively measure "in high demand" than "well-paid."

>I know of no better way to objectively measure "in high demand" than "well-paid." Sure, if the entire US had uniform costs of living. However, it's only the Bay Area that has costs (and local competition and investors) that keep those salaries at their current heights. Every other company not based in Southern California who can't find workers will suffer, whereas before they'd at least have a chance, albeit a slim…

Depends on the skill level and experience. 130,000 could be a senior developer / architect salary in parts of the Midwest. My company has paid contractors 5,000/week before.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#37

Post by astrodust »

amalag wrote: post #6

Something should be done as long as we hear stories like this from Disney and other companies: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3077302/it-careers/it-l...

There's a substantial difference between actions like that where they're clearly out-sourcing to slash costs and situations where you're trying to build an engineering team with top talent and want to tap the top 1% from all over the world, not just the local labor pool.

The reason there's a lot of foreign workers in the valley is becaus these companies poach the best. Just look at how many Canadian software engineering graduates are sponged up by Valley firms: It's a constant drain on talent. The Valley picks the best because in many cases the Valley can pay the best rates. This is not "We hired X because they were 50% cheaper than Y", it's "We hired X and Y because they're the best in their fields."

Attacking foreign workers as a whole is a serious problem. These firms want the best talent, and the best talent is not exclusively American.

Attacking deliberate undercutting efforts like Disney's is something that's reasonable. Disney had a team that could do the job that they cut loose so they could hire another cheaper team using foreign workers. That shouldn't be as easy to do as it is.

Don't think that slamming the door on foreign workers will magically make American salaries go up. It'll mean the average talent will go down, and salaries will be roughly the same for the same amount of talent anyway.

These companies will just open up satellite offices and hire foreign workers anyway. They just won't pay American taxes.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#38

Post by Benjamin_Dobell »

Alex3917 wrote: post #30
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's particularly fair on immigrants. It sets a double standard as to what people are worth. PS. Also Australian... yeah, we're awake at this time. EDIT: To clarify, I'm not at all suggesting screw over Americans either. I'd not be thrilled working in any industry where I'd spent years getting qualifications, just to be constantly undercut by any group of people. However, I don't think encouraging com…

> I don't think that's particularly fair on immigrants. It sets a double standard as to what people are worth. How so? The minimum wage for H-1Bs is over 4x higher than the minimum wage for Americans. If Americans had a minimum wage of 60k per year and immigrants were getting paid $7.25 per hour then that would be one thing, but it's currently the other way around.

So, ah... What you want is the American minimum wage increased to $100,000 and to leave the immigrant minimum wage at $60,000?

Yeah... I can't see that being abused at all. Good luck with that.

Re: Trump's visa plan leaks: American techies first

#40

Post by snogglethorpe »

tropo wrote: post #33
marcus_holmes wrote: post #8

This'll be interesting. Tech workers hate Trump, and have been forcing SV bosses to say bad things about him. But this move is clearly going to benefit us (well, I'm in Australia so not affected directly, but "us" as tech workers). Raising tech salaries and reducing the ridiculous exploitation of immigrant tech workers is good. SV bosses would clearly like to continue paying less for tech workers, and the visa progra…

Tech workers in SV seem to hate Trump, but tech workers are not only in SV. There are also tech workers at defense contractors all across the deep south, and they definitely do not hate Trump. They might roll their eyes at his antics or prefer a tougher stance on Russia, but "lock her up" is a very real desire. The H1B issue kind of resonates with them, since many are older people with families, though obviously the…

I'm sure there are some tech workers who support Trump, but education seems to be one of the best predictors for who voted against Trump, and tech workers are probably on average better educated than the general populace...
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