Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help • Hacker News Board

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#111

Post by tomcam » Thu, Feb 09, 2017, 8:07 PM UTC

averagewall wrote: post #76

tomcam wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- They give zero fucks about environmental impact

Environment? It's a desert, you can hardly break it worse than it already is. Also, it's Africa. Concern for the environment is a luxury for rich countries where the people already have a good quality of life and can put more effort into secondary effects like pollution/etc. Ultimately, humans are more important than the environment so where you can give a big boost to the former at a moderate cost to the latter, it…

Agree completely. My point was value-free. It simply makes a staggering difference in how much can get done in how short a time. By the way, the desert is an incredibly rich, complex ecosystem, no matter how bare it looks on the surface

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#112

Post by seagullz » Thu, Feb 09, 2017, 9:32 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #2

Great news for fans of rail and Africans alike. Also: environment is happier. I'm just amazed at how China is moving forward where other countries (looking at you, USA) simply cannot. What's their secret?

There are apparently business of more interesting and likely more profitable kind; See some of the articles by Nick Turse:: https://theintercept.com/staff/nick-turse/

And it's old story: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Pilger_John/Have_Nice_War_...

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#113

Post by dwaltrip » Thu, Feb 09, 2017, 10:32 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #77

dwaltrip wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any concrete criticisms? I'd be curious to learn about them.

This is an unstable area - to say the least. What happens if/when there is an extended disruption? Perhaps the Chinese government will feel justified to send in troops? What if (as seems likely) the monotonic growth doesn't materialize? What if there's a recession for a few years and there is a decline? Taking on debt means taking on risk.

Those sound like reasonable concerns. Thanks for sharing.

I don't much about the geopolitics or stability of these two countries, but assuming they aren't too unstable, it's hard to imagine that increasing mobility and ease of commerce won't have a sizeable economic boost.

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#114

Post by markdown » Thu, Feb 09, 2017, 11:24 PM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #108

markdown wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have less qualms of working with some regimes with less-than-stellar records on human rights Citation needed. US corporations not only readily work with dodgy regimes, they also work with drug cartels. China has horrible human rights records, but US corporations readily deal with the Chinese govt when there is money or market-share to be gained.

Since when do US corporations represent the people of the United States and their government? The US has done, and continues to do, some evil shit but there is clearly a much more effective feedback loop between American politicians and their constituents than between the Politburo and the Chinese population. That feedback loop includes peoples' beliefs in the principles of the United States and the Constitution, eve…

I get your point, but I fail to see the relevance here.

Chinese corporations work with despots and unsavoury regimes. US corporations work with despots and unsavoury regimes.

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#115

Post by akiselev » Thu, Feb 09, 2017, 11:50 PM UTC

markdown wrote: post #114

akiselev wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when do US corporations represent the people of the United States and their government? The US has done, and continues to do, some evil shit but there is clearly a much more effective feedback loop between American politicians and their constituents than between the Politburo and the Chinese population. That feedback loop includes peoples' beliefs in the principles of the United States and the Constitution, eve…

I get your point, but I fail to see the relevance here. Chinese corporations work with despots and unsavoury regimes. US corporations work with despots and unsavoury regimes.

Sorry, I'm conflating the Chinese government with the corporations that do the actual work on the ground and generate the revenue. The US does get involved a lot in foreign affairs on behalf of American companies (i.e. reporting on Airbus's attempted bribery of Saudi officials in order to benefit Boeing) but if my experience in Russia is indicative of how it works in China, the government and corporations are far more intertwined. In Russia, to get stuff done like get building permits or guarantee reliable logistics, you quite often have to resort to bribes and anything at the scale of large corporations requires complex relationships between the business owners and politicians/bureaucrats because the latter can easily use "legal" means to take control of the company and reprivatize it to their cronies. These are broad strokes but there are plenty of publicly known examples like Sergei Magnitsky, who died in a prison cell after discovering that high level officers took control of a foreign investment firm and claimed hundreds of millions of dollars in tax returns from the government.

Based on my understanding of this expansion into Africa, the Chinese government is heavily involved in negotiating mineral rights and uses its might to enforce the security of investments that are made by corporations, which are effectively state owned or at the very least can become so on the whims of the Politburo.