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YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

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Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#41

Post by paulsmith34 »

morgante wrote: post #32
plandis wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now if only poor people could get educational equality in the 13 years prior to college :-/

Eh, it's hardly impossible. My parents have qualified for food stamps at times yet I still had a pretty decent education.

Being the exception doesn't exclude the fact that poor kids are at disadvantage of gaining admissions to Ivies. A student from Phillips Exeter Academy has a much higher chance of being accepted vs a very smart but poor kid from a rural America high school.

Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#42

Post by katm »

wmichelin wrote: post #11
John23832 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just going to ask this. Silicon valley would be better served (and better serve others) when they stop giving hand service to the same schools they they went to and the people who think and act exactly like them.

I went to a very small state school, and I made my way to Silicon Valley. It's not impossible.

I recently tallied up the schools that founders from our Summer 2016 batch went to, and they attended over 180. There are many schools on that list that most people haven't heard of.

Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#43

Post by sotojuan »

the_watcher wrote: post #17
mayneack wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Through need based financial aid, these schools are very affordable for many of those students.

Once you get in. Unfortunately, it's often extremely expensive to build the resume required for getting into these schools in the first place.

It's more expensive in terms of opportunity than money. Sure, an expensive SAT tutor will help but lower class kids usually have to work or take care of a substantial amount of chores in the household. That takes time away from the activities that get them into top schools.

Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#44

Post by pitt1980 »

morgante wrote: post #15
John23832 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just going to ask this. Silicon valley would be better served (and better serve others) when they stop giving hand service to the same schools they they went to and the people who think and act exactly like them.

Top schools attract a disproportionate of intelligent young people. Ignoring that would be stupid.

Columbia has 8,410 undergraduates

University of Illinois has 32,878 undergraduates

the 75% SAT score for the college of engineering at University of Illinois was 1530 (no writing, so out of 1600)

https://admissions.illinois.edu/Apply/Freshman/profile

the 75% SAT score at Columbia was 2330 (including writing so 2330 * 2/3 = 1553.33333333

https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/classprofile/2019

-----------------

the top 25% of a place like university of Illinois (and a lot of other big state schools like it), probably represents a critical mass of intelligent young people that would be pretty competitive with ivy league schools

---------- ----------

also, while ivy league school give out generous amounts of aid, Illinois students aren't filtered by exactly how generous a discount the financial aid office wants to give on at 55k a year tuition (I suspect the top 25% does pretty well scholarship money wise at Illinois too)

Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#45

Post by John23832 »

morgante wrote: post #30
John23832 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being set up for success is different than being inherently intelligent. Who YC chooses to give separate attention does deserve scrutiny.

> Being set up for success is different than being inherently intelligent. Sure, but you're arguing against a straw man. It's simply objectively true that students at elite are on average much smarter than students at other schools, and more ambitious. They're much more likely to have a viable YC application. In fact, students who get into elite schools but don't attend them still far out-perform students who never g…

> It's simply objectively true that students at elite are on average much smarter than students at other schools, and more ambitious. They're much more likely to have a viable YC application. In fact, students who get into elite schools but don't attend them still far out-perform students who never got into one.

No no no...

First, your "objectivity" is not objective, at best it is a common assumption.

Second, nobody stumbles into Harvard and the like. That tier of school is an aim for both the child and parent from birth (probably before birth for the parents). Acceptance into these schools is the product of hard work (that I am not trying to detract from) and a financial investment (on behalf of the parent). Sure, there are some very intelligent people who take up residence in these schools, but for the VAST majority it was the hard work that got them there, not brilliant work. So yes, students who get in but don't attend can go on to be successful. However, that is a reflection of their work ethic more than their intelligence.

SO being at that tier of school doesn't guarantee intelligence, just being outside of the tier doesn't exclude intelligence. At best it shows that you can work hard and probably had a bankroll of some sort.

Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#46

Post by John23832 »

katm wrote: post #31
John23832 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a requirement that YC announcements perform well? I'm not trying to be negative, but just announce all the tours the same way and let people make of it what they will.

No requirement. But why not try something different if the first version doesn't work well?

If the point is just to announce, then why change what you did before? Announce it through the normal channels and be done with it.

Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#47

Post by Kephael »

sotojuan wrote: post #38
Kephael wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The marketing departments at these schools have done wonders. People whose families have modest incomes of 100-150k annually are going to pay a very large sum of money to attend these schools. It is only the very poor and very wealthy who do not have issues funding their education at one of these schools.

Stanford takes care of tuition for families under $125k of assets, but even that means the upper middle classes will spend tons because they'll fall out of that range.

Exactly, less than 125k in assets is absolutely nothing. The reality is that a married couple consisting of two working professionals will not qualify for any of these reduced tuition schemes.

Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#48

Post by dave_sullivan »

John23832 wrote: post #5
ilamont wrote: post #2

Does YC ever visit non-top-tier schools?

I was just going to ask this. Silicon valley would be better served (and better serve others) when they stop giving hand service to the same schools they they went to and the people who think and act exactly like them.

Yeah, but what do you want them to do? Nationwide tour of schools? Why only American schools? Why not highschools? Why schools at all; why not start hosting events in libraries?

But they're not. They're showing up at a few places, then doing other things. Fair enough, I think. It's not their job to do otherwise and you don't own their time.

Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#49

Post by morgante »

John23832 wrote: post #45
morgante wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being set up for success is different than being inherently intelligent. Sure, but you're arguing against a straw man. It's simply objectively true that students at elite are on average much smarter than students at other schools, and more ambitious. They're much more likely to have a viable YC application. In fact, students who get into elite schools but don't attend them still far out-perform students who never g…

> It's simply objectively true that students at elite are on average much smarter than students at other schools, and more ambitious. They're much more likely to have a viable YC application. In fact, students who get into elite schools but don't attend them still far out-perform students who never got into one. No no no... First, your "objectivity" is not objective, at best it is a common assumption. Second, nobody…

> SO being at that tier of school doesn't guarantee intelligence, just being outside of the tier doesn't exclude intelligence.

You continue to argue against straw men. I never said everyone at top schools is smart, nor did I claim that everyone who is smart is at a top school. Just that the average IQ at a top university is higher than at a random one.

Do you have any evidence to disprove that the average IQ at elite universities is higher? It's almost a farcical thing to argue against. For one thing, IQ correlates with SAT scores pretty heavily and SAT scores at elite universities are much higher. [0]

> That tier of school is an aim for both the child and parent from birth (probably before birth for the parents).

Oh give me a break. Have you ever been to an elite university? Do you know anyone there? My parents sure as hell weren't thinking about my college acceptances when they conceived me. I certainly didn't work hard to get there.

There's a small population of crazy Manhattan elites who are obsessed with preparation and education status, but that's far from being everyone who goes to a top school. Most of my friends were people who just happened to be very intelligent and (in many cases) hard working.

I don't understand what you are so hung up on.

[0] http://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=p...

Re: YC at Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UPenn

#50

Post by ilamont »

katm wrote: post #23
ilamont wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When YC posts about visiting the top-tier schools, it gives the impression that they are the only schools that matter. And I have to ask: If the Ivies/MIT/Stanford aren't the only schools that matter, why call them out in a post that's distinct from the winter tour post?

I'm calling out the schools this time because when I submitted a post titled "YC Winter Tour 2016" last year, this is how it performed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10881402 .

I think one of the issues is the title is too generic. Maybe call out some specific schools on the tour next time?
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