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Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

theguardian.com

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Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#91

Post by Nursie »

divbit wrote: post #79
hashkb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid you may be missing the point. The evidence you give (dog runs faster than you) doesn't really mean anything, and exercise does not affect anatomy. These are vets giving expert opinions and you are a (former) pug owner with an anecdote.

Ok I will take the bait - breathing, especially over the course of lets say ~45 minute run should definitely have some relation to the part of anatomy the article was talking about (specifically, the vets are claiming that the smashed nose shape makes it harder for them to breath, in relation to other dog breeds). Surely being able to breathe correctly is necessary to run for 45-50 minutes continuously? What I am cla…

They're arguing that you shouldn't buy a pug as at the moment because a large proportion of the population of pugs will suffer terrible health problems

That you had a single individual that you believe did not suffer from the issues related to extreme brachycephaly doesn't really tell us much.

The problems are only partly related to inbreeding - selecting for dogs with such squashed heads is bad in and of itself.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#92

Post by milesf »

mulletbum wrote: post #48
milesf wrote: post #39

The article is misleading. I own two pugs, and it's a breed that must be kept fit and healthy. They can't be allowed to run hard in hot weather, and if it is hot they need a lot of water. The folds in their skin need to be kept clean as well. This is a very old breed, and the dogs do have a decent lifespan if they're cared for properly. I don't know about Bulldogs, but I've never owned one because they're only expect…

Your dog can't run in hot weather? Doesn't that concern you when there are millions of working dogs that are at the same fitness level, but wont die in hot weather? I feel as though you justified the entire article in your second sentence?

Every responsible pug owns knows you should not run pugs _hard_ in hot weather. It can lead to organ damage. Pugs are not working dogs, they are companion dogs.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#93

Post by dopamean »

mikesickler wrote: post #73
Waterluvian wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We got two spaniels (years apart) from the same breeder. Both died suffering of a number of abnormalities that became pronounced when they got older. Later we found that the breeder was forced to stop altogether because the dogs were so consistently damned. I can still hear what I can only describe as "screaming" by our first spaniel the night she came home after an emergency operation. She had to be let go that nigh…

We had a cocker when I was in college that, at about age 8, became aggressive toward my mom and brother, biting them both on the neck hard enough to draw blood. Obviously we had to euthanize him. The vet told us that the tan-colored cocker spaniels were especially prone to problems, as their light color was a result of very close breeding.

I had English cockers growing up. Check out rage syndrome [0]. I only first heard about it a couple of years ago and it very accurately describes the behavior I saw in our dogs. FWIW, not all of our dogs were from the same breeder.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_syndrome

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#94

Post by ebbv »

weavie wrote: post #46

Not just Pugs. I had a German Shepherd. Beautiful dog, but everyone who I met who had had a German Shepherd in the past told me their dog had to be put down around 10 years of age due to their back legs failing. Our dog didn't even make it to 10. She died of heart failure at 7. According to the vet this is another common problem with the breed. I well never get a pure breed again.

Not all pure bred dogs have health problems. If you take the time to find a breeder who cares about the dogs more than money then you can find dogs that are healthy and well cared for. This takes effort though and research.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#96

Post by snerbles »

whack wrote: post #28

There was a great video I saw about how "purebred" dogs are essentially a cesspool of genetic disorders, and how we need to start taking active steps to bring back genetic diversity in our dogs. It was eye opening to see that the pedigrees we put on a pedestal are actually putting our dogs through a host of abnormalities and health complications. https://youtu.be/aCv10_WvGxo

My family trains and breeds hunting retrievers as a hobby. Hip displaysia, heart disease and eye disorders run rampant in the breed, particularly in show lines where the dogs are expected to be pretty and not be particularly athletic. Organizations like the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (http://ofa.org/) maintain public databases of genetic clearances for dogs in the effort to combat these problems.

If you want a purebred, adopt a rescue or buy one from a breeder that properly runs genetic clearances.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#97

Post by aaronbrethorst »

feld wrote: post #84
weavie wrote: post #46

Not just Pugs. I had a German Shepherd. Beautiful dog, but everyone who I met who had had a German Shepherd in the past told me their dog had to be put down around 10 years of age due to their back legs failing. Our dog didn't even make it to 10. She died of heart failure at 7. According to the vet this is another common problem with the breed. I well never get a pure breed again.

There are acknowledged problems with pure breeds of all kinds, but not all pure breeds suffer from such extreme problems. It's possible to find a breeder with a strong bloodline free of many defects but it is not going to be cheap.

There are also many thousands of mutts in need of a good home for free.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#98

Post by milesf »

Nursie wrote: post #47
milesf wrote: post #39

The article is misleading. I own two pugs, and it's a breed that must be kept fit and healthy. They can't be allowed to run hard in hot weather, and if it is hot they need a lot of water. The folds in their skin need to be kept clean as well. This is a very old breed, and the dogs do have a decent lifespan if they're cared for properly. I don't know about Bulldogs, but I've never owned one because they're only expect…

I think the problem is that with some breeds, a large proportion of the individuals will necessarily suffer from problems related to their deformed anatomy. Pugs are just one example of a breed where breed characteristics (brachycephaly in this case) have gone far enough that it can be argued that continued breeding of them is cruel, particularly f continuing to select for extreme breed characteristics.

Oh stop! Breeding them is cruel? Let's have a rational discussion without trying to lay a guilt-trip.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#99

Post by Nursie »

milesf wrote: post #92
mulletbum wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dog can't run in hot weather? Doesn't that concern you when there are millions of working dogs that are at the same fitness level, but wont die in hot weather? I feel as though you justified the entire article in your second sentence?

Every responsible pug owns knows you should not run pugs _hard_ in hot weather. It can lead to organ damage. Pugs are not working dogs, they are companion dogs.

Because the poor beasts overheat and can't breathe properly!

Part of the point of the article...

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#100

Post by Nursie »

milesf wrote: post #98
Nursie wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is that with some breeds, a large proportion of the individuals will necessarily suffer from problems related to their deformed anatomy. Pugs are just one example of a breed where breed characteristics (brachycephaly in this case) have gone far enough that it can be argued that continued breeding of them is cruel, particularly f continuing to select for extreme breed characteristics.

Oh stop! Breeding them is cruel? Let's have a rational discussion without trying to lay a guilt-trip.

Yes, cruel, deliberately bringing dogs into the world that are likely to suffer pain and discomfort throughout their lives due to their extreme deformities.

What other word are you going to use?

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