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Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

theguardian.com

31–40 of 264 posts

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#31
post #28

There was a great video I saw about how "purebred" dogs are essentially a cesspool of genetic disorders, and how we need to start taking active steps to bring back genetic diversity in our dogs. It was eye opening to see that the pedigrees we put on a pedestal are actually putting our dogs through a host of abnormalities and health complications. https://youtu.be/aCv10_WvGxo

There's also this BBC documentary https://vimeo.com/17558275

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#32
post #4

Before I had to give my pug up this past summer - I used to take him for good length jog daily, and he would frequently out pace me. If a pug is in shape, it will do great. If you just feed it hotdogs all day and only infrequently give it proper exercise, then yes, I could see it being an anatomical disaster. Compare this dog's fitness http://imgur.com/a/doIi9 with the dog in the linked article.

I'm afraid you may be missing the point. The evidence you give (dog runs faster than you) doesn't really mean anything, and exercise does not affect anatomy.

These are vets giving expert opinions and you are a (former) pug owner with an anecdote.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#33

Vast majority of purebreds have some serious generic issues. I'm hoping that we as a society will solve this whole situation soon. There is a BBC documentary on this https://vimeo.com/17558275

This is why mutts are the best. Genetic diversity is good. Anecdotal, but growing up my two mutts lived to the ages of 16 and 18...well past the life expectancies you see in the purebred world.

It's really a case-by-case basis thing.

I grew up with a mutt that I loved dearly. My parents got her because my Dad had read something or other in (I think) Popular Science about how the "dog of the future" would be a mutt, and the mutting of genes would suppress bad recessive traits. Then she got sick as a puppy, had an allergic reaction to her medication, and suffered permanent brain damage. That having been said, she was a perfect house pet; lived to be a very ripe old age and was good natured, just a little slow to respond to things.

If you're a breeder and there's something wrong in the genetics of the dog you're breeding, stop breeding that dog. But resolving genetic issues isn't as simple as just throwing mutts together; you really just roll the dice on a new set of strengths and weaknesses when you do that.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#35
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats the solution here?

Eliminate purebreds. Can you imagine we did the same with humans? Selecting for only one characteristic is a recipe for genetic disaster.

I think you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater in that approach.

Purebreds carry common genetic weaknesses. They also carry common genetic strengths. How confident are we that we can preserve the strengths as we mitigate the weaknesses?

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#36
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats the solution here?

Eliminate purebreds. Can you imagine we did the same with humans? Selecting for only one characteristic is a recipe for genetic disaster.

> Can you imagine we did the same with humans?

I can! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemophilia_in_European_royalt...

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#37
This doesn't work. You can't convince people who's income depends on staying silent to speak out. You need to convince politicians to make it harder on people breeding unhealthy dogs. Politicians yearn for topics to fight for if it can bring them voters. Vets yearn for people bringing their sick dogs to them and not another guy.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#38
post #28

There was a great video I saw about how "purebred" dogs are essentially a cesspool of genetic disorders, and how we need to start taking active steps to bring back genetic diversity in our dogs. It was eye opening to see that the pedigrees we put on a pedestal are actually putting our dogs through a host of abnormalities and health complications. https://youtu.be/aCv10_WvGxo

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about whether you can manage to retain breed traits without damning the dogs.

If I had to slap down a guess on what is going on. The #1 issue is targeting cosmetic traits that are anatomically not functional. The #2 issue is breeders not prioritizing health over conforming to the breed standard. Pet grade purebreds may not look quite perfect to a discerning eye, but they can be very robust especially if they are a working dog.

If you control for #1 and #2 is there still a higher incidence of issues? Probably. Why would reducing diversity be a free lunch? Is it an ethical issue? Maybe. I mean I eat animals. I can't put myself on some high horse. At some point we make them to use so there is a balancing act going on.

The fallacy to watch out for is conflating breeder behavior and outcomes with outcomes for the breed if bred "properly."

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#39
The article is misleading. I own two pugs, and it's a breed that must be kept fit and healthy. They can't be allowed to run hard in hot weather, and if it is hot they need a lot of water. The folds in their skin need to be kept clean as well. This is a very old breed, and the dogs do have a decent lifespan if they're cared for properly. I don't know about Bulldogs, but I've never owned one because they're only expected to live 6 - 8 years.

I've owned many different breeds over the years, and it's true that mutts are generally better health wise. They also tend to have better temperaments. I have pugs because I love them, but I also think too many people get them just because they're cute.

As a dog lover, it's going to be headlines like these that are going to get some well-needed discussion going. So on one hand I disagree with the thrust of the article that pugs are anatomical disasters, but on the other the whole 'purebred' arrogance needs to be taken down a few notches.

Re: Pugs are anatomical disasters. Vets must speak out–even if it’s bad for business

#40
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose there was a breed of, say, monkey, that was popular as a household pet. They were considered to be quite clever and could be trained, over some years, to use a toilet, fetch things from the fridge, even manage primitive forms of communication. The only problem is that they're a genetic trainwreck. They've got a pronounced, gourd-like head with a snout so compact that it's common to have to surgically remove s…

https://xkcd.com/1650/ But comparing humans to dogs in that matter is kind of ridiculous. This is more like if your sister called and said "I just read about chinese foot binding, and I think it's a great idea so I'm going to do it to my children!" That's basically what people who only accept dogs who have debilitatingly short snouts, etc. are doing.

People aren't binding pug's snouts. They just grow into hideously deformed beasts all on their own like people do.
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