Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#151

Post by specialist » Thu, Feb 09, 2017, 3:25 PM UTC

slavik81 wrote: post #57

cam_l wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree.. but I wonder what would happen if unions started to take a leaf out of the 'no poaching' corporate playbook and simply unionised secretly. Collective bargaining via synchronised individual bargaining, where everyone demands the same conditions on their employment. (Surely this could be appified ;) Perhaps if there were no official union, the vicious knock down would be much more difficult to focus. And…

Unions are essentially a form of cartel, and they suffer from all the same organizational problems. Workers are faced with a prisoner's dilemma. The best individual choice is always to defect. To keep a unified front you need some sort of centralized force that prevents people from defecting. In traditional unions, it is enforced by law that all employees must join the union if the shop is unionized. A secret volunta…

This book was revelatory for me. I was aware of game theory stuff, but had no idea how it applied to groups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#152

Post by giaour » Sat, Feb 11, 2017, 9:20 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #144

giaour wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A collective labor action is literally "a better deal or we all quit." Why do you assume that unionized developers would resort to violence or baseless litigation? Medical doctors, university professors, and librarians are largely unionized. Do you believe the American Association of University Professors threatens colleges with arson when negotiations aren't going the way they want them to?

> Why do you assume that unionized developers would resort to violence or baseless litigation? History? > Medical doctors, university professors, and librarians are largely unionized. Doctors aren't exactly a union - they're a licensing body. That distinction matters rather a lot for this discussion. (No licensing body has ever threatened, let alone carried out, violence to prevent outsiders from taking jobs, to the…

You're thinking of state medical boards, but the AMA is a non-profit that engages in extensive lobbying and, via the American Board of Medical Specilities (http://www.abms.org/about-abms/ ), exerts some degree of control of their profession. (I.e., you must join an organization and demonstrate proficiency to call yourself a "board-certified pediatrician.") The AMA calls themselves "more than just a union," and many members are self-employed, but I think it still constitutes a union.

You're right that the AMA has never threatened or carried out violence, but then again, neither have any professional unions I've ever heard of.

For the record, I've spent ~6 years in unionized workplaces and never heard the school teachers, university professors, or government employees who had union cards conspire to commit violence. I would recommend reading about professional unions before decided that they are violent based on "History?".

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#153

Post by aerovistae » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 2:58 AM UTC

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #146

dlhavema wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unlimited vacation is starting to be more common... the company that is buying the place i currently work at is doing it as well.. they don't have to keep PTO hours on the books, and don't have to pay out for hours not taken when you leave either...

So it's unpaid leave? How many paid vacation days do you have per year?

For me it was as simple as I said: unlimited paid vacation. What mattered was getting your work done, not being in the office as much as possible.