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Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

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Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#21

Post by CydeWeys »

supahfly_remix wrote: post #14
thanatropism wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The short answer is "scikit-learn".

Can you please give the longer answer? I don't understand what you mean. What does scikit-learn have that octave doesn't? (Asking out of ignorance)

It's commonly featured in machine learning MOOCs. Sometimes things win mindshare for reasons other than feature sets.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#23

Post by Jach »

supahfly_remix wrote: post #10

It seems that octave has been overtaken (in mindshare) by python/numpy. Why is that the case?

Did Octave ever have a larger mindshare? It always seemed like the cheapskate's Matlab substitute, but if you know enough Matlab where you might consider a substitute, you probably have a Matlab license already. (Or like me a need to run on an embedded Linux while you work on a python port + a distaste for proprietary software...)

Anyway, my thought on why numpy seems more widespread is simple: efficiency.

Even Matlab code gets rewritten if it needs to be used for something intense, and Matlab has many more optimizations than Octave to get away with sloppy coding. Python+numpy is pretty easy even for a non-programmer to write (at least compared to C++ or whatever a DSP wants you to use) and even sloppily done is generally fast, plus it has a great and large community. But both Matlab and Octave are great (at least if you use octave-forge) for prototyping and doing a lot of domain specific things python/numpy/scipy don't support out of the box. Matlab especially has a lot of neat GUI helper tools. Meanwhile R is over in its own world where if you're doing anything in that domain it's a questionable choice not to take advantage.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#24

Post by pm90 »

n00b101 wrote: post #8

Meanwhile, MathWorks annual revenue is over $800 million.

Honest question: what exactly do you hope to put light on with that comparison? I don't think the developer in question has ever claimed that he is a fantastic businessman: quite the contrary, he is (apparently) a very talented developer who is seeking funding to continue a project which others may find useful.

I understand that the current economic system in the US greatly favors forming a business around a good idea/software, but we shouldn't be closed to other models of software development as well.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#26

Post by StavrosK »

pinewurst wrote: post #20
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #17

This is not a scalable model of software funding. People may send you money today, because its on their minds, but bills will have to be paid again next month, and next year. Please get yourself, a Patreon account, or something similar. Meanwhile, I'm sure MathWorks is looking for people with exactly your domain knowledge[0]. https://www.mathworks.com/company/jobs/opportunities/?s_tid=...

Working there, though, might preclude further work on Octave.

I'm guessing that when you're the BDFL of Octave you can negotiate a compromise.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#27

Post by jlarocco »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #17

This is not a scalable model of software funding. People may send you money today, because its on their minds, but bills will have to be paid again next month, and next year. Please get yourself, a Patreon account, or something similar. Meanwhile, I'm sure MathWorks is looking for people with exactly your domain knowledge[0]. https://www.mathworks.com/company/jobs/opportunities/?s_tid=...

I agree this type of plea isn't sustainable, but going to work for MathWorks is just a ridiculous suggestion. I can't believe you even seriously suggested it. There's such a giant conflict of interest you might as well suggest RMS go work for one of the remaining legacy UNIX vendors.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#28

Post by anigbrowl »

There's something fundamentally broken about the open-source model when you can invest so much time and npt get any sort of economic return. This seems like a huge limiting factor on open-source development. As I've pointed out in discussions on copyright issues, artists value copyright because the patronage model sucked - you're essentially dependent on people's charity and having to beg just to maintain basic economic security is inefficient, demoralizing, and unreliable.

I think services like Patreon etc. are quite worthy but they're also dysfunctional. Nobody has solved the micro-payment problem yet and it seems like people have just given up trying. In a saner world this person would be rewarded for the enormous technical contribution with a reliable pension of some sort to remove the distraction of financial anxiety.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#29

Post by StavrosK »

pm90 wrote: post #24
n00b101 wrote: post #8

Meanwhile, MathWorks annual revenue is over $800 million.

Honest question: what exactly do you hope to put light on with that comparison? I don't think the developer in question has ever claimed that he is a fantastic businessman: quite the contrary, he is (apparently) a very talented developer who is seeking funding to continue a project which others may find useful. I understand that the current economic system in the US greatly favors forming a business around a good ide…

The GP probably meant that people are more than willing to pay for Matlab but they don't realize that Octave needs funding too, and possibly that if you use Octave it's probably worth around the price of a Matlab license, on average, to you.

Re: Looking for Work After 25 Years of Octave

#30

Post by pm90 »

supahfly_remix wrote: post #10

It seems that octave has been overtaken (in mindshare) by python/numpy. Why is that the case?

Like other have said, the #1 reason is probably just being part of the python ecosystem. But there were other reasons as well: there has been a big push in academia where MATLAB was used extensively to use Python when it became available (because its free and open source; but also many licensing restrictions around MATLAB). So there has been a significant investment in the python/numpy ecosystem from both academics and industry players who don't want to deal with these licensing issues (e.g. Oil and Gas companies).
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