Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help • Hacker News Board

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#21

Post by zhemao » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:41 PM UTC

skdd8 wrote: post #20

jimmywanger wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just amazed at how China is moving forward where other countries (looking at you, USA) simply cannot. China has very little regard for civil liberties and human rights, whereas the US government has to at least pay lip service to it.

Normally I would agree with you but, that hasn't been the case for the past 3 weeks or so.

Maybe that's Trump's plan to MAGA. Get rid of all those pesky civil liberties and democratic procedures getting in the way of progress. /s

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#22

Post by everybodyknows » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:43 PM UTC

kevindong wrote: post #5

> For Djibouti, the debt is especially daunting, amounting to 60 percent of its gross domestic product. This seems absolutely insane to me.

Not to worry. The Chinese leadership is thoroughly pragmatic and will eventually write off as much of the balance as necessary: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAZARA_Railway The lenders will remember that they don't have much leverage over Djibouti, unlike the Eurozone with its debt trap for Greece.

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#23

Post by sremani » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:48 PM UTC

skdd8 wrote: post #20

jimmywanger wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just amazed at how China is moving forward where other countries (looking at you, USA) simply cannot. China has very little regard for civil liberties and human rights, whereas the US government has to at least pay lip service to it.

Normally I would agree with you but, that hasn't been the case for the past 3 weeks or so.

US under Trump is still a better place in terms of Human Rights and Quality of Life than life in an Average city in China under the Xi.

Of the two there is no debate who is an Autocrat. Xi's opponents went to Jail and the purges are still continuing. How many of Trumps opponents went to Jail? Lets be level headed in conversations here, rather than hyperbole.

But hey, you are welcome to go to China and behind the firewall, if you think its all rocking there!

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#24

Post by vkou » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:49 PM UTC

sremani wrote: post #18

r00fus wrote: post #2

Great news for fans of rail and Africans alike. Also: environment is happier. I'm just amazed at how China is moving forward where other countries (looking at you, USA) simply cannot. What's their secret?

Because China is an export-oriented country. Now we can go into who provided credit for whom to build this railway track, I would assume (I can be wrong) it all involved a dizzying array of Chinese creditors and companies, from the steel, construction to the trains themselves. They are not building out of charity but the benefit their own companies. Lot of LatAm countries like Ecuador have taken Chinese credit when C…

> Lot of LatAm countries like Ecuador have taken Chinese credit when Commodity markets are hot, are now regretting their mistake.

Ten years ago, the same was said about those same countries, except it was WMF loans, not Chinese loans.

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#25

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:49 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #2

Great news for fans of rail and Africans alike. Also: environment is happier. I'm just amazed at how China is moving forward where other countries (looking at you, USA) simply cannot. What's their secret?

[deleted]

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#26

Post by ced » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:49 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #9

earthtolazlo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the coal-fired plants cheerfully mentioned in the article strikes you as good for the environment?

A coal fired plant combined with an electric train and transmission losses is more efficient both energy and emissions-wise than the equivalent ICE engines to transport the same people.

I'd be curious to see the back-of-the-napkin math behind this.

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#27

Post by DrScump » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:50 PM UTC

kevindong wrote: post #5

> For Djibouti, the debt is especially daunting, amounting to 60 percent of its gross domestic product. This seems absolutely insane to me.

Even that doesn't add up. First of all, I bet that figure represents only the debt specific to this China deal, on top of whatever other debt they already had. Secondly, Djibouti's GDP was $1.7 billion (or thousand million in British wording), but the only debt figure stated was $14 billion as China's overall investment. That's like 800% of GDP using those raw figures. The truth is probably somewhere else.

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#28

Post by notahacker » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:54 PM UTC

zhemao wrote: post #12

kevindong wrote: post #5

> For Djibouti, the debt is especially daunting, amounting to 60 percent of its gross domestic product. This seems absolutely insane to me.

The US debt is more than 100% of GDP ... It's not necessarily a problem so long as the debt-financed spending accelerates growth. GDP is the amount the economy generates per year. Debt is relatively fixed (unless you borrow more or have a crazy interest rate). As long as the interest on public debt doesn't outpace the tax revenues set aside to service it, they should be fine. Djibouti is a relatively undeveloped coun…

Debt as a proportion of GDP is less of a problem when a nation owes it mostly in its own currency to its own citizens, mind you.

Djibouti's national debt seems to be projected to remain fairly stable as a proportion of GDP though, which is a better fiscal position than many.

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#29

Post by geodel » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:56 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #2

Great news for fans of rail and Africans alike. Also: environment is happier. I'm just amazed at how China is moving forward where other countries (looking at you, USA) simply cannot. What's their secret?

Nothing secret. China as a country generates lots of savings and the money that is parked with government(banks) needs to be deployed to generate returns. So it will get invested all over the world.

Re: Joyous Africans Take to the Rails, with China’s Help

#30

Post by contingencies » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 11:56 PM UTC

kevindong wrote: post #5

> For Djibouti, the debt is especially daunting, amounting to 60 percent of its gross domestic product. This seems absolutely insane to me.

You definitely would enjoy reading Confessions of an Economic Hitman, the first chapter of which I have personally verified with an Indonesian diplomat.