this might be interesting.
Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
571–580 of 650 posts
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#572Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hm, do you really believe, that Apple wants to artifical cripple the web? I see, that they hypothetically might have motivation, to do so ... but this is not valid, since the web is inferior to native implemantations in the first place! The "only" advantage of the web is, that it is more or less, cross plattform.
As far as i can remember, they've been consistently behind on support for emerging web technologies (since the app store came out), it just doesn't seen to be in their business interests to keep up.
But it is something different, to not "keep up" with full priority, than to intentionally sabotage WebStandards ...
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lack of known good reasons, and their major infamy in perpetuating lock-in in general. They have only themselves to blame for being seen in negative light in this topic by default.
That doesn't mean their isn't good reason. I guess they believe they can build a better product by having control over the graphics pipeline. Obviously I cannot say for sure what they think in that regard, but neither can you.
Not very convincing. They often used excuses of good reasons to do sinister stuff, so, they'd need to work much harder to fix their ruined reputation.
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#574Earlier quoted context omitted.
kext's must be signed now, Apple can freely revoke developer certs and block them if they so desire.
Windows drivers need to be signed as well, whats the problem?
But not by Microsoft, you can opt to obtain WHQL certification for your driver and have MS sign them - but it's also acceptable to get a code signing cert from any trusted CA.
Apple controls all the keys for macOS, AFAIK there's not even an option to add additional CA's for code-signing trust. To get around this you have to completely disable SIP, and it's rather stupid to tell users they must disable a well-meaning (if somewhat poorly implemented) security feature to install a kext because Apple doesn't like you (no knowledge if this has happened, but it can, and I don't care for that).
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as i can remember, they've been consistently behind on support for emerging web technologies (since the app store came out), it just doesn't seen to be in their business interests to keep up.
But it is something different, to not "keep up" with full priority, than to intentionally sabotage WebStandards ...
The UIWebView is an interesting example. They released significant performance advances in the iOS Safari web browser, but denied those features to developers of cross-platform apps on frameworks such as Cordova, artificially degrading the performance of Cordova apps compared to natively developed iOS apps. Both need to go through the AppStore anyway, but keeping as much dev lock-in as possible in terms of the tech used is obviously an interest here.
Add to that the fact that what positive feature development there has been in Safari (e.g. the above-mentioned excellent es6 support in the Technical Preview) has very specifically excluded the addition of any of the APIs that begin to blur the web/native divide (web notifications, userMedia, service workers, &c.)
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where do I point to any "pet issues"? I don't say it is already too late, I say it might be. That may be overly dramatic but, unless you refute that there is a problem with an actual argument, you are hardly arguing against that.
FWIW, I agree with you. The most recent macbook 'pro' release has caused a majority of the devs I know say 'screw this' and trade their macbooks in for surfaces. Not exaggerating. Apple should be concerned.
Apple sold a record breaking amount of tbMBPs in the quarter since its release.
The HN echo chamber is strong, but its silly anecdotes don't reflect reality.
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#577Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everything I'm reading in this thread pertains to Mac OS, so I'm sticking with my assertion.
You mean people complaining about the lack of Vulcan on OS X? I mean if we're only paying attention to desktops than this whole discussion is moot. Safari on the desktop has a pathetically small market share, Chrome and various versions of IE easily dominat it. There's no reason to think that even if we ended up with the equivalent of WebMetal that would seriously boost desktop Safari's market share. iOS, especially…
On iOS, Apple is going to do it's own thing and that's that.
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#578Earlier quoted context omitted.
FWIW, I agree with you. The most recent macbook 'pro' release has caused a majority of the devs I know say 'screw this' and trade their macbooks in for surfaces. Not exaggerating. Apple should be concerned.
Apple sold a record breaking amount of tbMBPs in the quarter since its release. The HN echo chamber is strong, but its silly anecdotes don't reflect reality.
Perhaps I was being unclear- I don't doubt that they sold a ton of them. The length of time since the previous update alone would ensure pent-up demand.
What I don't think they did is sell many to developers or programmers. Although small in number compared to the overall size of the market, Apple's losses there are important. Mindshare matters when you're talking about the people you expect to build the software for the platform you sell.
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#579Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I guess you know all this but you've asked me to elaborate. So, in terms of compatibility you have: DX12: Windows only. Metal: macOS/iOS only. Vulkan: cross-platform and cross-vendor. Windows 7/8/10, Android, Linux, MoltenVK supports iOS/macOS with a wrapper. That's a big win for Vulkan IMHO. Valve also agrees with this assertion. In terms of performance, I don't think Metal is even a contender, given how bad m…
It makes no sense to judge the quality of an API by the power of the available hardware it might be running on. The discussion is not about what platform will run VR the best. In addition, Apple will be rightly considering iOS when evaluating options for web technologies, not the increasingly small section of the planet running Nvidia and AMD hardware on Windows.
It does, though.
Many times bottlenecks and missteps are not really visible until you can see how your decisions and assumptions encounter reality especially when every other chokepoiht has been removed.
Unless they did their development on Windows or on hardware that has never shipped, Apple isn't really in the position to have evaluated how well Metal works in reality.
I would add that the awkwardness of some "good" API designs is often not revealed until much later (and this is doubly true in the graphics space where there is ample evidence of API choices revealing themselves to be stuck with what turned out to be bad choices some times later).
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#580I'm new to this, but does it mean that Apple is preparing for some AR stuff ? Thanks.