> Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
Which works only on one size of screen? :)
Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
471–480 of 650 posts
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#472Related reading re. Vulkan "What a WebGL2 successor could look like and why it can’t be WebVulkan" - https://floooh.github.io/2016/08/13/webgl-next.html See also the the author's sketch of a next-gen web graphics API on top of WebGL ( https://floooh.github.io/2016/10/24/altai.html ) which is (perhaps unsurprisingl) broadly similar to the sketch given the article (minus command queues, shader libraries, ...).
Vulkan is a horrible choice for a web standard. Their hardware support is abysmal, the only graphics hardware that supports it was made from 2012 on wards. Even then a decent chunk of the support is experimental: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API) Vulkan is great, but you need to think about the cross compatibility of the web.
We're talking about a web standard. Something that will take 5+ years to be implemented fully on all platforms, and even then might still be behind feature flags.
If Vulkan took this long to adopt partially, how long do you think a new 3D + Web standard will actually take? My money's in 10 years.
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
It makes no sense to judge the quality of an API by the power of the available hardware it might be running on. The discussion is not about what platform will run VR the best. In addition, Apple will be rightly considering iOS when evaluating options for web technologies, not the increasingly small section of the planet running Nvidia and AMD hardware on Windows.
> It makes no sense to judge the quality of an API by the power of the available hardware it might be running on. I didn't make any such judgement or even mention VR a single time! But, looking at the points you've raised, I can say with confidence that Vulkan has been designed, taking into considering these issues. Vulkan has been carefully engineered from the ground up not to alienate tile-based renderer hardware.…
You did make such a judgement- you wrote:
> In terms of performance, I don't think Metal is even a contender, given how bad macOS hardware is compared to Wintel.
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
Intel has only released beta/test drivers for Windows, and this was their statement as of August: The current Plan Of Record is that Intel® is not supporting Vulkan on Windows drivers. The drivers that were made available on Developer.com are intended for Vulkan developers. So, it is expected that some Vulkan drivers may not work for end users. Intel GPUs power at least 50% of Windows PCs, and I'd guess the number is…
Intel has (unofficially?) said they will deliver production quality Vulkan drivers for their iGPUs. https://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/developing-games-and...
Thanks for providing the link. The relevant quotes:
"Vulkan support right now is for 6th Generation and newer products and we are targeting developers not consumers. Thus why the releases are beta and are listed in the Game Developer Zone and not anywhere else."
is full Vulkan support planned for consumers: "To my knowledge yes, but I do not know when and would not want to hazard a guess"
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to https://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/developing-games-and... Intel DOES plan on releasing official production quality drivers at some point.
Planning and actually releasing is not the same thing.
They HAVE released drivers, I've used them on both Windows and Linux.
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#476If this takes off, what are the chances it will spread out of the web and be the new standard way we draw graphics, the new abstraction available almost everywhere, the successor to OpenGL?
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#477Kicking and dragging on WebRTC, WebCL, Vulkan. Business interests much?
WebCL is dead AFAIK. None of the browser vendors is interested in it. They'd rather have compute shaders from OpenGL 3.2 in WebGL.
Note that on desktop, OpenCL is dead for NVIDIA too (they've been stuck on 1.2 for ages, they removed their profiler, ...), and AMD's new stuff also dropped OpenCL 2.0 support.
I like OpenCL but it doesn't look like it's going anywhere. The unified compute+graphics APIs are king.
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are apps compatible between platforms That would be an awful experience for the consumers, UI/UX-wise.
It wouldn't need to be. The application could have different UI/UX models based on the expectations of the user.
As a developer I see this as a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" issue. Professionally I develop an application with Linux and Windows support, it is a pain and requires a great investment in time. Of course one could use a web technology such as Electron but then you get insulted because of memory hogging, non optimization and disrespect for UX. Developing an iOS and Android application the right way practically takes twice as much time.
As I value user experience and performance above all, for personal projects I prefer to focus on a single platform. And so far, I was also always more happy when using applications from developers that do the same.
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
Still higher than GNU/Linux will ever be.
Not if you take Android into account.
Which is why I have precisely written GNU/Linux.
Android is a Java based OS, which happens to use Linux as kernel, Google can very easily change it to something else.
Only these set of C and C++ libraries are available to native applications on Android, which happen to be compiled to a .so anyway, to be loaded inside ART/Dalvik.
https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis.html
Trying to link into any other GNU/Linux library that happens to be on the devices, but isn't part of that list, will trigger an app termination, starting with Android 7.
https://developer.android.com/about/versions/nougat/android-...
Also, many POSIX APIs have been removed from the kernel and require extra wrapper libraries, if they can be emulated at all.
https://roxanageambasu.github.io/publications/eurosys2016pos...
https://thesai.org/Downloads/Volume4No7/Paper_15-POSIX.1_con...
Re: Apple proposes new web 3D graphics API
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
That was an interesting non sequitur...
It is not a non sequitur: it is the same argument applied to another situation where people fall into the same trap of lack of knowledge leading to a lack of understanding of their own plight (we might even call it a "blissful ignorance"). The other person who responded to the same parent comment saying "it's hard to be consciously bothered by the lack of something that you've never experienced?" could have been leav…
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