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Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

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Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#121

Post by wz1000 »

avar wrote: post #113
wz1000 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I would prefer a US hegemony over an ISIS hegemony. The comparison itself is ridiculous. But saying that the US has not used its military strength for its own benefit and at the expense of the people of other countries is ridiculous. The US staged a coup in Guatemala at the behest of the United Fruit Company, when the democratically elected Prime Minister of Guatemala wanted to end UFCs exploitative labor practi…

> Yes, I would prefer a US hegemony over an ISIS hegemony. The comparison itself is ridiculous. Of course the comparison is ridiculous. That's my whole point. But this is the comparison the grandparent I'm replying to is making. I.e. that the U.S. bombs some countries while being concerned about civilian casualties, and terrorists respond with something like the 9/11 attacks where they're explicitly trying to inflict…

The US isn't concerned with civilian casualties. Of course, it wouldn't go out of its way to inflict them, but it simply pays no regard to them, no matter what their scale. Look at US actions in Laos, Cambodia, and Libya for direct instances of this, where hundreds of thousands of people were killed because of US actions.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#122

Post by sytelus »

emptyfile wrote: post #107
sytelus wrote: post #21

Wow... 1,700 air strikes just last year alone. That's more than 1 air strike every 6 hour for entire year! I'm wondering how much damage is being inflicted on civilians here. Not just people getting killed, but people becoming homeless or their livelihood getting destroyed. If these are not ultra-precise air strikes then we would be giving birth to future heavily disgruntled middle east population.

Ever heard of ISIS?

The problem is that all these bombings would actually help expand ISIS as civilians lose their dear ones/homes/livelihood due to allied bombing. Between 2014 to 2017, estimated drop in numbers of ISIS fighters was 6000 - that's about 20% drop [1]. Assuming all of them were killed, that's about 2000/year i.e. almost exactly number of airstrikes. So either it is taking one air strike to kill one terrorist or ISIS gets refueled pretty fast from disgruntled civilian population.

[1] https://www.rt.com/usa/331355-islamic-state-fighters-numbers...

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#123

Post by EliRivers »

2bad4u2b wrote: post #57
megous wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Syria: Assad complained about that in recent interview with Belgian press. It's also hard to say he's against ISIS. But anyway, he's a dictator and a paranoic who sees terrorists everywhere and can't even fathom that opposition against him may be legitimate, so his permission means nothing really. http://www.globalresearch.ca/president-al-assad-to-belgian-m... [I'm not endorsing this website in any way. It just was t…

Assad is the President , he's extremely popular , he won the internationally observed election , hands down . If you say that Assad isn't the legitimate leader your the one spreading crap . I lived there 19 of the last 32 years .

"he's extremely popular"

Oh right. So what's with all those people who want him to stop being in charge so much that there's been a civil war raging for years? How popular can he be if so many people are willing to risk their lives to move him out of power? To have a civil war, he's surely got to be massively unpopular with a large segment of society.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#124

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc »

mongmong wrote: post #63
proee wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you posted a few example articles, does not negate the fact that the media fails to provide front-page coverage of such an important issue.

I dont understand this notion of media responsibility to report on matters of grave importance and substance. As long as media is profit driven (which the vast majority it is) I expect nothing from them other than to please their shareholders. If reporting on drones drove more clicks and generated more page views we'd see media rushing to report on such coverage. The fact that they don't to me says it's a demand prob…

> As long as media is profit driven (which the vast majority it is) I expect nothing from them other than to please their shareholders. If reporting on drones drove more clicks and generated more page views we'd see media rushing to report on such coverage.

You're oversimplifying this issue greatly. The media can (and do) manipulate the public, their opinions and interests. Don't think that just because we're the "good" guys that propaganda isn't practiced in the US. "Trust Me: I'm Lying" is a good book about this subject.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#125

Post by VMG »

bpodgursky wrote: post #17
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity There's a lot of nuance here, because there isn't really a (current) clear-cut case of the US bombing a sovereign nation where the government has not given the US permission. Of the current active campaigns: - Afghanistan - Iraq - Pakistan Each of these countries has a functioning government, even mostly democratically ele…

> There's a lot of nuance here, because there isn't really a (current) clear-cut case of the US bombing a sovereign nation where the government has not given the US permission.

That may be true, but having the permission of these governments to launch bombardments shouldn't be a moral argument.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#126

Post by musha68k »

ivanhoe wrote: post #96
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

>One man's terrorist is another man's hero. That "another man" is brainwashed too. Everyone's brainwashed by their local media and not just that, but we all are deeply biased because, at a personal level, we all look at our own interests first. Countries do the same. And since the planet is only this big, those interests quickly come in conflict with other side's plans and then countries do nasty things justifying th…

>That's just how the world works...

Maybe the world needs to change then :)

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#127

Post by maxvu »

js8 wrote: post #100
skriticos2 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US actions after WWII in the peace negotiations weren't as altruistic as you are trying to make out. In fact it was a reaction to the disastrous result of the peace negotiations after WWI, which greatly contributed to WWII, and with the USSR being what it was and everyone building nukes they probably thought WWIII was not in their interest. Building up western Europe was a strong force against the USSR and a conv…

Are you saying that if altruism (helping others) is a rational thing to do, then it's not really altruism? I find that argument a little strange.

Altruism isn't "helping others", it's "helping others for others' sake". Other motivations muddy the selflessness.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#128

Post by jacobush »

3131s wrote: post #41
csallen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

> Our "defense" of Vietnam. And most people only think of Vietnam itself regarding that conflict, yet Cambodia and Laos were absolutely decimated too. The US dropped more tons of bombs on Laos and Cambodia individually than the combined amount dropped by the allied forces in WWII. There are still 80 million unexploded bombs in the Laos countryside. Landmines sold by the US and China to the Lon Nol government and the…

Hence the songs Holiday in Cambodia by the Dead Kennedys and Cambodia by Kim Wilde.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#129

Post by jameslk »

csallen wrote: post #32
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

> Honestly, I somewhat doubt a thread like this could make it to the top of HN at a time when most Americans aren't sleeping. Americans don't want to read this stuff.

I completely agree with you, and I'm an American. To claim that Americans are the only ones that need to wake up is a bit disingenuous though. Perhaps we need a wakeup call from the outside. The nations that have allied with the US, or benefit from friendly relations with the US are also complicit in what the US is doing. Where's the sanctions on the US? There aren't as many because sadly others benefit from the actions of the US by simply turning a blind eye.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#130

Post by megous »

bpodgursky wrote: post #17
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity There's a lot of nuance here, because there isn't really a (current) clear-cut case of the US bombing a sovereign nation where the government has not given the US permission. Of the current active campaigns: - Afghanistan - Iraq - Pakistan Each of these countries has a functioning government, even mostly democratically ele…

Also, now the US should stop doing operations in Yemen. We'll see how that will go.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/world/middleeast/yemen-sp...

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