Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported • Hacker News Board

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#71

Post by avar » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:46 AM UTC

educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

Here's a thought experiment you can use to clarify the difference between good & evil: What would each side in a conflict do if they had overwhelming power?

We have plenty of evidence to see what the US would do. When they defeated Germany & Japan at the end of WWII did they enslave their people? Use their nuclear advantage to conquer new lands and colonize them? No, they rebuilt their economies and tried to ensure that they had stable governments & trading partners.

What do you think ISIS would do with exclusive use of nuclear weapons? How about Iraq under Saddam etc? Do you think Hamas would be equally deterred by Israelis using their children as human shields as Israelis are by Hamas using theirs for that purpose?

Of course good & evil isn't black and white, the western world does a lot of bad stuff. But it's just as brainwashed to think that just because all sides cause some civilian casualties to think that everyone's morally equal, as it is to think that the US is some altruistic knight in shining armor that can do no wrong.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#72

Post by jahnu » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:48 AM UTC

3131s wrote: post #41

csallen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

> Our "defense" of Vietnam. And most people only think of Vietnam itself regarding that conflict, yet Cambodia and Laos were absolutely decimated too. The US dropped more tons of bombs on Laos and Cambodia individually than the combined amount dropped by the allied forces in WWII. There are still 80 million unexploded bombs in the Laos countryside. Landmines sold by the US and China to the Lon Nol government and the…

What's even sadder is with a few billion much of that uxo could be cleaned up but they struggle for basic funding to clear some each year.

In my mind that displays there is little remorse for past actions.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#73

Post by bpodgursky » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:49 AM UTC

zumu wrote: post #65

bpodgursky wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity There's a lot of nuance here, because there isn't really a (current) clear-cut case of the US bombing a sovereign nation where the government has not given the US permission. Of the current active campaigns: - Afghanistan - Iraq - Pakistan Each of these countries has a functioning government, even mostly democratically ele…

Do Afghanistan and Iraq really count given they were invaded and their governments replaced with puppet regimes? How could the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan ever afford to say 'no' to the US?

The current governments of Iraq and Afghanistan are reasonably democratically elected.

The government of Iraq did, in fact, say "no" to the presence of US troops, which is why they all left: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_U.S._troops_from...

The much smaller recent bolstering of US troops in Iraq was also by invitation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_I...

Whether or not it would be a great idea for Afghanistan to tell all UN troops to book it is a different question. But at the end of the day, they have not asked that.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#74

Post by watbot69 » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:50 AM UTC

avar wrote: post #71

educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

Here's a thought experiment you can use to clarify the difference between good & evil: What would each side in a conflict do if they had overwhelming power? We have plenty of evidence to see what the US would do. When they defeated Germany & Japan at the end of WWII did they enslave their people? Use their nuclear advantage to conquer new lands and colonize them? No, they rebuilt their economies and tried to ensure t…

Do you think the US is not using it's "overwhelming power" because of moral high ground or because it would spur a united retaliation as well as internal resistance?

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#75

Post by starik36 » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:50 AM UTC

csallen wrote: post #32

educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

I am not sure what your point is in bringing Iran, maybe its to blame the US for the current situation there.

Keep in mind that 1953 was over 60 years ago. To keep on blaming US for acts committed that long ago and apply to today...well, it's ridiculous.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#76

Post by tajen » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:52 AM UTC

megous wrote: post #26

Other thing that is massively underreported on much bigger scale than actual air strikes are civilian casualties. Presumably so that Americans, or Russians or whoever of the other N countries that bomb people regularly can justify killing thousands of civilians in middle east a year by mistake. It is not a mistake though, it's a calculated acceptable collateral murder where the government determines some acceptable r…

There are many maps of terrorist attacks, shared on Facebook and so on. I just wish they started including terror attacks from US. Just to see the ratio.

First example on Google: http://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2016/terrorist-attacks/

PS: I actually wish the International Haye Court would start an investigation on a US president on drone strikes. Not sure he's guilty, but the suspicion might finally raise ears in normal citizen.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#77

Post by wallace_f » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:54 AM UTC

educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

Try to tell people why Eisenhower said "there was no reason to use that awful thing" (the atomic bomb) and that the greatest threat to America was the Military Industrial Complex. You could stay close to the facts, but still they'd think of you like some kind of conspiracy theorist because you don't agree with what they've been taught to believe.

It is entirely within the realm of likely possibilities that our national elections are a complete farce: https://i.imgjar.co/jar/jz_ITKGNR0StdBBIoT8dyw.gif

Part of becoming an adult is realizing how terribly awful people can be. But part of that is also realizing that there are many good people out there. I hope the good people take back control, somehow.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#78

Post by megous » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:56 AM UTC

2bad4u2b wrote: post #57

megous wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Syria: Assad complained about that in recent interview with Belgian press. It's also hard to say he's against ISIS. But anyway, he's a dictator and a paranoic who sees terrorists everywhere and can't even fathom that opposition against him may be legitimate, so his permission means nothing really. http://www.globalresearch.ca/president-al-assad-to-belgian-m... [I'm not endorsing this website in any way. It just was t…

Assad is the President , he's extremely popular , he won the internationally observed election , hands down . If you say that Assad isn't the legitimate leader your the one spreading crap . I lived there 19 of the last 32 years .

We had elections in communist Czechslovakia too, where the party got 99% of votes, just like with Assads. Was it democratic? No. It is frankly ridiculous to say that any elections with these kinds of results are in any way meaningful expressions of popular support.

We also had forced demonstration of support for the government. Had to go into parades, etc.

The question is if you would be willing to go there now and publicly propose that Assad should not be a president, without fear of being thrown into prison?

Also what do you think of experiences of people who were tortured and killed by his subordinates for expressing dissent on facebook, or twitter, or in demonstrations?

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#79

Post by kchoudhu » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:56 AM UTC

So the military faces the same regulatory reporting challenges banks do: ambiguous orders on what to report come down from regulatory committees with no context attached, which you are in turn forced to interpret. When your interpretation is judged (usually unfairly) to be incorrect by some smartass in the press whose understanding of the ground realities is incomplete at best, resulting in a dustup which usually ends up with you being hauled in front of a regulatory committee to grovel, admit fault and promise not to repeat the mistake again.

Bitter? Why would you think I'm bitter?

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#80

Post by wallace_f » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 7:57 AM UTC

csallen wrote: post #32

educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

> Honestly, I somewhat doubt a thread like this could make it to the top of HN at a time when most Americans aren't sleeping. Americans don't want to read this stuff.

Americans are finally waking up and realizing we need to do something to protect justice, or we'll be next.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out...

We're well past the time to speak out. The time to speak out is now. It's not against Trump. It's not against Clinton. Nor Obama. It's against all of them. It's against a broken system.