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YC Research: Universal Healthcare

blog.ycombinator.com

291–300 of 359 posts

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#291

I'm a patient with an auto-immune disorder. I'm going to share some of my lessons/surprising things I learned in healthcare/drug discovery. I did YC fellowship with a healthcare startup in the clinical trials space. I am one of Watsi's biggest fans(zero hedge) and excited to see them go after this. Here's some hard things I learned over 8 months entrenched in industry, meeting everyone from Hospital execs to drug dev…

I'm wrong on a few elements of this. https://twitter.com/datarade/status/829181877915234304

So much for vetting out naivete.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#292
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that policy is pure benefit for consumers and the only costs are to greedy mustache-twirling men, then there may be another bubble going on. It would mean that the US uses its leverage to push drug prices down to marginal costs, which would almost be the last domino in payers willing to pay for something like the value of new drugs. But drug development doesn't make sense if you can only charge marginal…

Or we could start funding medical research through our system of universities and the like. We have immense public and non-profit institutions that can take over. Maybe we'll even be able to see more benefit in treatment of rare and neglected diseases that way. It also means that a large number of people could actually afford medication, doctors, etc. I have friends who can't afford going to the doctor, can't afford…

If the system you're describing is easy to set up and promises similar (or better) results at lower costs, why aren't other countries adopting it?

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia we have a universal healthcare system for everybody and a private system that runs alongside that essentially gets you a more comfortable bed and the ability to jump the queue for non-critical surgery.

Even an economic nightmare like Argentina manages to run on the same idea (I grew up there.) The level of complexity and inane amount of paperwork you have to do in the US to get the simplest care is still baffling to me. I get it that it's the inefficiencies that make this system profitable to some, and that's why you might get the "best doctors in the world", but it could definitely use some modernization.

All the money involved means that the companies and their lobbyists have too much at stake and have to mobilise against change. Huge shame when it impacts hundreds of millions.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet making structural changes so that cost of care is more visible to patients would help a lot in the US. Of course this means disincentivizing health care as a benefit rather than incentivizing it, so it will never happen. It is kind of happening with things like HSAs, but not really. We should also work on removing arbitrary barriers to entering the supply side of the market. Not just for individuals that want t…

I agree, opacity is a big part of the problem. I'm super-excited about Castlight Health ( http://www.castlighthealth.com/ ) and how they approach the problem (by presenting cost/value scatters and other ways)...but...how obscene is it that we as a country should even need such a service!?

My company uses CastLight and it is pretty great. It has been fairly accurate (+/- 10%) the few times I have used it.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cost of care is more visible to patients In the US you get to see the cost of care every time you have reason to see the physician - there's the copay for the physician visit and medications, and then there's the explanation of benefits, where you, as a patient, get to reconcile accounts. In NIH Britain OTOH, you get to see nothing of that sort (except a small copay for medication), and healthcare costs are better co…

> In the US you get to see the cost of care every time you have reason to see the physician I feel it's important to point out that you see the cost in the bill . There's no reliable way to see the cost beforehand.

"I feel it's important to point out that you see the cost in the bill. There's no reliable way to see the cost beforehand."

There's at least one exception:

http://surgerycenterok.com/

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! Hospitals don't care about inefficiencies because insurance pays for it. Patients don't care either again because insurance pays for it. Insurance can't negotiate with hospitals as patients don't ever want to lose their doctors and revolt if insurance even brings up dropping a hospital for charging exorbitant rates. Add to it an insane 4 years in college + 4 years med school curriculum that does not incentiv…

You forget one part: patients do not care what insurance costs because their employer chooses what they use and what price they pay. If I could buy health insurance separately from my company I'd look into it. I know my company pays at least as much as I do for my insurance, but if I go off the company plan I can't get that money to use for insurance I like. The result of this is I have incentive to not care what any…

> If I could buy health insurance separately from my company I'd look into it.

You can always venture away from your employer and visit healthcare.gov or a relevant state exchange.

From what you're describing I think what you're looking for is an HMO - either a branded facility like Kaiser or a "provider network" that agreed to guarantee prices to that specific insurance company.

You won't gain much transparency though - every provider works off the master price list, and the insurance company then negotiates a discount highly correlated with the size of that insurance company and general presence in the region.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patients like Medicare Part D because millions of patients couldn't afford their drugs and now they can, not because of insurance companies or the market is privatized. Ironically it was GW Bush who got Medicare Part D done (which is the antithesis of fiscal conservatism, and many might remember Bush losing a lot of support from his own party, though many say it was just politicians in the pockets of insurers). Alter…

> Patients like Medicare Part D I'm talking about Medicare Advantage, not Medicare Part D. Most Medicare Advantage plans do include a Part D plan, but not all do. > not because of insurance companies or the market is privatized. People like Medicare Advantage because they are actually able to book appointments without horrendous wait times, and they're able to see a better selection of higher-quality doctors. And the…

>I'm talking about Medicare Advantage, not Medicare Part D. Most Medicare Advantage plans do include a Part D plan, but not all do.

I would have thought 9 out of 10 advantage plans have part D drug coverage but its actually 82% at an average cost of $40/month.

>Medicare Advantage consistently outperforms Original Medicare on medical outcomes, not just on patient satisfaction.

Outcomes is a buzz word, if you want to talk Star Ratings and Quality Metrics, then we can begin to discuss what "outcomes" really mean.

Just one example where a quality metric has both positive and negative patient effects simultaneously: say I'm Blue Cross Blue Shield, thru MTM I somehow manage to get all my Medicare Advantage Part D Chronic Care Patients to switch an average of 10 Rx/patient from 30 day to 90 day fills.

Its these little things inherent in the Star Rating/Quality Measure system that people regularly refer to as patient "outcomes". In my example, the Blue Cross Blue Star Star Rating might even go to 5 allowing me to sell insurance year round. Why? It starts with medication related incidents costing billions/year and resulting in millions of hospitalizations and that being some of the lowest hanging fruit to correct, so "medication adherence" is heavily weighted in Star Ratings, and somewhere there is a study concluding 90 day fill improve medication adherence by x% over 30 day fill (i.e. improved outcome). It all sounds great until you peel back the layers and find a doctor who refuses to change the script because morally the doctor wants to see that patient every 30 or 60 days (again these are all Chronic Care Patients so diabetes, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc...) before writing a refill. When these objections regularly occur from doctors, insurance has deemed them to expensive and drops them from the network, and as I stated in my initial post those patients will regularly be redirected to a practice owned by the insurer themselves.

Now in all fairness we all know there are doctors who do in fact milk the system with unnecessary patient visits but it is undeniable from the court cases by groups of doctors who have been dropped against the insurers and the reactions of patients losing a doctor they know and trust, there is very unsavory behavior by insurers.

Here is my final diatribe on my bone to pick with "outcomes", naturally one way to drive down costs care (thus improve Star Ratings and outcomes) is switching from name brand to generic. However, even when doctors feel a generic may be fine they may not want to change a therapy in instance when the patient has been on a continuous therapy successfully managing their chronic care condition just to save a few dollars, improve the insurers Star Rating, and claim better patient outcome. Though this debatable issue becomes a clear problem when insurers start pushing the doctor (and even the patient thru cold calling) to change the Rx to a generic that is clinically proven to be harmful to patients to save money (which may actually be happening with the diabetes Statin therapy).

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could start funding medical research through our system of universities and the like. We have immense public and non-profit institutions that can take over. Maybe we'll even be able to see more benefit in treatment of rare and neglected diseases that way. It also means that a large number of people could actually afford medication, doctors, etc. I have friends who can't afford going to the doctor, can't afford…

Indeed, there are not enough incentives for pharma companies to target third world or not-so-common disease, but instead to push things like Viagra. That's one of the things Gates Foundation is helping address but ideally we do it at the government level. Research through grants to universities and labs already fuels a lot of great R&D in the US and I feel like we need to have even more of it for medicine.

Viagra is the only expensive drug that people willingly pay full price for.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#299
Good choice for YC research investment.

I hope they don't try to reinvent the wheel in some areas (sounds like it from the post). It would probably be a good idea to benchmark how hard it is to set up a functioning and operational GNU Health system in community X for example.

There's a lot of potential for replacing nothing/no doctors with machine learning, especially in developing countries. Especially in areas where mobile phones are spread I can think of a couple of use cases. Take a picture of your swelling/strange looking skin/whatever and have a classifier tell you what it could be. Last time I checked the algorithms actually beat expert panels (for skin cancer). Could probably be coupled with a "doctor as a service" system that optimizes routes based on this sort of data.

The more I think about it the more I should catapult working in this area up my job application list :)

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#300
post #192

What does this have to do with universal healthcare? We know how to make healthcare more efficient. We know how to remove the administrative overhead. Other countries already have these systems in place. Look at Taiwan for one example. They have digital medical records and an extremely low administrative overhead because of universal care. Healthcare will continue to be broken no matter how many YC research programs…

If you look at polls that go issue by issue, you inevitably come to the conclusion that the "US population" at large (55-60%) would support a broad agenda of social democracy. The problem isn't the people, it's the politicians. Specifically the Democrats, who refuse to push for anything but the weakest, most ineffective compromise policies.

Then why did people vote for Hillary Clinton and not Bernie Sanders in the primaries?

Honest question from a non-American (in the social democrat Europe, Sanders seemed like the no-brainer option to like 99% of the people I know...).

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