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Romania is developing its own culture of protests

euronews.com

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Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I'm certain they're being lied to or paid to go on the streets You realize both sides use this argument? It's not that either side is being lied to or paid; some people simply have different viewpoints on issues, as hard as that is to believe.

And some people are lied to and paid. It's hard to see the difference from a distance, but as a general rule, always suspect the group that is in favor of the government. Even more if the protest is about investigating corruption.

No, don't suspect anyone without evidence. You should always approach people with respect and engage with them as an individual who disagrees with you, unless you have a good reason not to.

Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#82
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one of the first laws you try to pass is to legalize bribes lower than $50k to save your party leader and his cronies, it means that you deceived your voters.

Bribing was never on the table to be decriminalized, just negligence while serving in a public office.

You can easily masquerade a bribe as negligence.

Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#83
I just watched and enjoyed Cristian Mungiu's latest film (Graduation) about a parent who gets caught up in government corruption while trying to ensure that his child gets a chance to leave the Romania for college.

Two thumbs up.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/may/19/graduation-revi...

Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#84
Hello World! From Romania. I am 37yr old and for the last 13yr software developer. That's why I'm writing on HN, my primary SRC of information for the last 7 yr.

First of all, please look at Romania, look what we are doing and for what we are fighting and do a _replicate_ on your Country IIf your Gov does not respect your primary rights or you feel that your nation is going into the wrong direction.

(America, Poland and Hungary, can YOU hear us?)

Also, what is important, we, people from RO Street, fully support European Union. The most important Peace Project ever created. We Love EU. Please fight for EU, do not let anyone tear us apart. We must remain strong to our European culture and principles.

I do apologize if my message is too political with respect to HN nature.

We know that America is 1st. But, can we say... Romania 2nd?

Best regards!

Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#85
post #17

To be honest I'm quite proud how the protests went. More akin to Ghandi's protests than to rioters burning cars. It's going to be a long struggle but thankfully the groups most supportive of populism and therefore corruption are older (>50).

I can't remember where I read this, but there was this unique protest in Japan in a shoe factory. The workers made only one half of shoes (they made shoes only for the left leg). Technically they were working, but also protesting - all without making noise!

What would be the software equivalent of this? disable half the buttons on a page? :P

Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's going to be a long struggle but thankfully the groups most supportive of populism and therefore corruption are older (>50). On the flip side, this might be just the natural shift in people's political views as they get older. I mean, the same argument is made by liberals in the US, forgetting that people simply become more conservative as they are aging.

Right, they get older, poorer (since our retirement plans are terrible) and in need of the socialist measures which our left party promises.

They expect a benevolent dictator and/or a nanny state to do stuff for them, give them a job, a roof over their heads, food etc. This is how they were raised and educated during communism. They did not and will not adapt to capitalism and the free market.

The leftist klepto mafia party PSD promised things to these people in exchange for their votes. They are screwing up those who work or at least try to make an honest living, those who contribute to the county's GDP and expect their taxpayer money buy infrastructure, hospitals, schools, kindergartens instead of lining politicians' pockets.

Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#87
post #27
post #26

It's interesting that you currently have one of the largest "political" peaceful demonstrations in the world right now in Korea and in Romania and not many people are talking about it. (I'm happy to see this bit of news on HN.)

Most of the media is only interested in covering "violent protests" so they can help their buddies in power by discrediting the protesters. Those who watched the U.S. elections closely in 2015 and 2016 already know the media had zero interest in covering real issues, and they would much rather do a one-day marathon about Trump calling someone a pussy. And now the same media blames the Russians or whoever that Trump i…

I sort of agree, but also think you're mistaken, for two reasons.

First, 'the media' is not a monolith, but an ideological marketplace, and treating it as a single entity is dangerously wrong. Fallacies of composition are unavoidable whenever we generalize, but that's precisely why we must be careful when we make generalizations lest we mislead ourselves into making decisions based on an over-simplistic model.

Second, we cannot know people's motivations. It's inarguably true that the largest media outlets do tend to support incumbent power elites (I'm not talking about political parties or figures here). However I claim that this is not only the result of a conscious decision to perpetuate the status quo but also an unintended outcome of the capitalist framework within which media companies operate.

Local news stations are supported by advertising, advertising demands the largest audience, and the largest audience gravitates to the most impactful news format presented with the greatest degree of (apparent) urgency. There are two main competing news formats (Eyewitness News and Action News) both of which emphasize the spectacular at the expense of the structural, and both driven by a need for speed in both acquisition and delivery, lest people vote with the remote. The talking heads that report the news aren't so much instructed to lie, as forced into a disregard for the truth by the constraints of the product they deliver.

That's one counter-intuitive reason that you often get better news temporarily in the wake of a severe tragedy; the generic format isn't adequate to address a truly drastic story, and once reporters abandon the format they tend to do a much better job...but once the tragedy is over, economic logic reasserts itself, and the news goes back to the information equivalent of unhealthy fast food.

the media had zero interest in covering real issues, and they would much rather do a one-day marathon about Trump calling someone a pussy

I'm going to nitpick a bit here. The public is not that interested in real issues because that part that watches a lot of TV is not so well-educated and not so thoughtful, and prefers infotainment that provides drama and conflict vs. dull analysis. Hillary Clinton's biggest weakness was not her penchant for secrecy and denial, but her lack of a Big Plan and her policy wonk personality. Looking at her actual agenda and leaving personalities out of it, a disinterested observer would have to agree that she was offering a combination of administrative competence and incrementalist reform - a 'safe pair of hands' candidate. Donald Trump's offering had a lot of bold initiatives (giant wall, tear up agreements, and other abrupt changes) and very little detail on the how-to side - a 'kick the bums out' candidate.

Now I loathe and despise Trump, but I can easily see why large numbers of people voted for him, because his candidacy was a hell of a lot more exciting. If Hillary was the rather anti-social mechanic promising to fix that annoying knock in your engine, Trump was the salesman offering you a great deal - the best deal, the deal you deserve - on a brand new car with metallic paint and go-faster stripes. Regardless of how I feel about him as a President, he has a masterful understanding of selling things, and it turns out you can sell ideas just as easily as hotel bookings or lifestyle accessories.

We can blame the media for amplifying his relatively shallow sales pitch, but the media goes where the eyeballs are. I love watching C-Span and hour-long charlie Rose interviews that focus on policy questions and structural issues, but the audience for that is microscopic compared to the audience that regularly tunes into Fox News or CNN. People choose to watch airheads like Lou Dobbs or Don Lemon and mostly ignore in-depth journalism. This might be better with better education and so forth, and I don't think there's a whole lot you can do about that beyond reiterating the value of public investment in education and the arts; a marketplace of ideas, like any other marketplace, is going to prioritize the lowest common denominator.

Having said that, I don't blame the media too much for focusing on Trump's talk of grabbing women by the pussy. That was sensationalist, but it also addresses a real issue which I think you're ignoring; if you're a woman in the USA, then you have probably had some experience of sexual harassment and that negatively impacts your life. That is every bit as much a real issue as the ecological impact of coal or the cost-benefit ratio of some policy or whatever. It's also easier to cover, because it's such a simple issue to understand and because it provokes powerful emotional reactions for very substantive reasons to do with personal liberty and safety.

I really don't think that if media outlets had spent October saying 'Let's study the structural dynamics of manufacturing employment and the long-term outlook for the tech sector...in other news, Donald Trump offended women again...now onto geopolitical strategy and the debate over a multipolar world vs US hegemony' that the public would have risen to the occasion and got in touch with its inner genius. The media offers a distorted and often misleading reflection of society, but ultimately it is a reflection rather than an origination, and the fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.

Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#88
post #27
post #26

It's interesting that you currently have one of the largest "political" peaceful demonstrations in the world right now in Korea and in Romania and not many people are talking about it. (I'm happy to see this bit of news on HN.)

Most of the media is only interested in covering "violent protests" so they can help their buddies in power by discrediting the protesters. Those who watched the U.S. elections closely in 2015 and 2016 already know the media had zero interest in covering real issues, and they would much rather do a one-day marathon about Trump calling someone a pussy. And now the same media blames the Russians or whoever that Trump i…

The violent protesters are the ones discrediting themselves. It's troubling that you don't want this information reported on.

Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#89
post #27
post #26

It's interesting that you currently have one of the largest "political" peaceful demonstrations in the world right now in Korea and in Romania and not many people are talking about it. (I'm happy to see this bit of news on HN.)

Most of the media is only interested in covering "violent protests" so they can help their buddies in power by discrediting the protesters. Those who watched the U.S. elections closely in 2015 and 2016 already know the media had zero interest in covering real issues, and they would much rather do a one-day marathon about Trump calling someone a pussy. And now the same media blames the Russians or whoever that Trump i…

Except they are NOT interested in reporting the violence in protests in the United States because all the violence is wholly on the side of groups siding with Democrats.

The media was 80/20 against one candidate, if not higher

Re: Romania is developing its own culture of protests

#90
post #85
post #17

To be honest I'm quite proud how the protests went. More akin to Ghandi's protests than to rioters burning cars. It's going to be a long struggle but thankfully the groups most supportive of populism and therefore corruption are older (>50).

I can't remember where I read this, but there was this unique protest in Japan in a shoe factory. The workers made only one half of shoes (they made shoes only for the left leg). Technically they were working, but also protesting - all without making noise! What would be the software equivalent of this? disable half the buttons on a page? :P

If you only make the shoes for the left leg you're still doing your actual job, just not all of it.

Disabling half the buttons on a page is an active act of sabotage.

Peaceful protests for software engineers have the problem that in most software companies, if everyone used the age old "you're not allowed to strike" tactic of conspiring to call in sick, most likely the software would continue to work just fine, since everything is automated.

Of course the system would eventually break down, but likely after the employees lost their patience for the protest, by which point the company could have brought in replacements to keep the shop running.

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