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YC Research: Universal Healthcare

blog.ycombinator.com

131–140 of 359 posts

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#131
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the united states we can't successfully implement negotiation on drug prices for MediCare. They literally can't negotiate with their suppliers. By law. On the flip side, Medicare sets reimbursement rates for services essentially by fiat[0], which can be below the marginal costs of providing service. Most providers cannot legally refuse to treat Medicare patients, so they are forced to accept the rates that Medic…

I see this argument in many places. Who dictates the cost of providing services? Why are these costs so high? My pet theory is the insane costs (money, time, high selectivity) of medical training and office overhead. Medical professionals feel entitled to $$ for their risk. Perhaps older specialists who didn't have these costs are spoiled. I would love to see how tuition amnesty would affect price elasticity.

Physician and staff salaries (outside of staff to manage insurance companies) are not what drive increasing medical costs. Most physicians don't make that much money, all things considered.

An insurer last month for a relative's pediatrics practice announced that they were having difficulties with their accounting system and so they would only be making a half payment on their outstanding AR (and naturally, they announced this problem right before the payment was due to be sent). My relative's practice has no practical recourse other than to wait for the full payment to be sent. This is not an uncommon occurrence. My relative's practice is regrettably not able to use the same argument for their bills that are due.

It costs my relative money to administer vaccines in their peds practice, i.e., most insurances pay less than what it costs to purchase and give the vaccine. My relative continues to offer many vaccines at a loss because they believe vaccines are one of medicine's greatest gifts and because they have good success in persuading unsure parents to vaccinate their children. From a pure numbers perspective, it is a mistake.

Insurance companies not paying physicians on time as agreed drives up costs. Insurance (Medicaid included) not paying what it actually costs for a procedure drives up costs. Insurance companies arguing against the best course of treatment for a patient, requiring additional staff to be hired in order to deal with the pushback, drives up costs.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#132
post #33

(Full-time co-founder of a healthcare startup here): W/r/t the US specifically: it seems there is no shortage of inefficiencies and obvious solutions to the inefficiencies in the US healthcare system. To me, the real problem seems to be a system that has almost diabolically evolved to create competing interests that deadlock all sides into a sub-optimal solution. Specifically-- patients, payers, physicians, pharma, f…

In the united states we can't successfully implement negotiation on drug prices for MediCare . They literally can't negotiate with their suppliers. By law. Anybody thinking software is going to solve that is way in a bubble. http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/09/19/the-politics-of-med...

I think in many respects Medicare is a prime example of how easily the US might/can jumble up a single payer system.

Medicare is socialized medicine, and should be single payer, yet insurance still manages to get in the middle and increase costs while reducing patient outcomes.

Specific example that almost no one talks about: Medicare Insurers come to town and start buying up primary care practices, then, then the Insurer cancels contracts to the remaining providers and those who don't sell. This means patients lose their doctors of years and are stuck going to the primary cares the Insurance companies own, and then provide waterdowned care to patients (e.g. RX that is cheaper for the insurance company even when the Med is proven less effective, less refferals to specialists than the market average, etc...).

There have been some lawsuits against Medicare insurers for this specific behavior, but to my knowledge those have resolved in settlements where the insurers temporarily agree to allow existing patients to continue seeing their doctors, but unfortunately the reality of those cases are the doctors aren't fighting for their patients but seeking their own buyout from the insurers.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#133
post #10

Unless you remove people out of the equation, universal healthcare will never work. There's no incentive for anyone to be efficient, more frugal, work harder, provide a better service in universal healthcare. Humans arent wired for this.

"Universal" means goverment-paid. It means that we have officially accepted that healthcare is so unfathomably impossible for a normal person to afford that the government has to inflate the cost out of existence. This is obviously not a sustainable or mature solution to the problem, but it's a band-aid that appears to relieve much of the burden involved for patients. I broke it out once and my net salary would be ab…

Do you realise that the US government spends more per capita on your current health care than the UK government spends?

http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-com...

Government spending (not including insurance)

> Despite less than half of the USA’s total healthcare expenditure coming from government expenditure or compulsory insurance schemes, it still spends more per person on these financing schemes than the UK- £3,111 in the USA in 2014, compared with £2,210 in the UK. In the USA spending on privately-funded healthcare is over five times more per person than in the UK.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#134
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a vast over simplification of the issue and ignores issues around implementation. First off, Medicare Part D plans are run by private insurers and they certainly do negotiate on price. In fact, they tend to get better prices than commercial plans. Those savings are used to compete for Medicare dollars to cover those patients (i.e. savings are passed on to Medicare). Second, physician administered drugs are pai…

Medicare Part D plans are run by private insurers and they certainly do negotiate on price. Why is a third party negotiating for Medicare, rather than Medicare negotiating directly? Because they're smaller, and have less leverage. physician administered drugs are paid for at a rate that is the average of what private payers pay. Why is a third party negotiating for Medicare, rather than Medicare negotiating directly?…

Switzerland, England, Canada, the Netherlands... which negotiator in any of those countries is not smaller than Medicare?

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#135

Interestingly, we already discovered a mechanism for drastically reducing the cost of healthcare back in 1986. It's a way of crowdsourcing the problem called high copays . Basically, you have to pay out of pocket for 90% of your health care up to a (high) cap. It turns out that patients are very good at figuring out which health care will improve health and which won't - the high copay group had no statistically sign…

Almost smells like the ACA, doesn't it?

Edit: My apologies for sounding a bit antagonistic. The ACA is currently making use of high copays for that reason and more. It also hopes to force more transparency as well as most people want more than a icd-10 code when they have to write a check for $4k.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#136
post #101

I really wish Congressmen didn't have federal healthcare, and they had to use the same insurance us plebeians use. That would help them fix up the system real fast.

> I really wish Congressmen didn't have federal healthcare, and they had to use the same insurance us plebeians use. They do; through 2014, like other federal employees (and most employees of large businesses) they had a choice of the private plans contracted by their employer. Since 2015, they've been limited to ACA exchange plans. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/health-care-for-members-of-...

[deleted]

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#137
post #33

(Full-time co-founder of a healthcare startup here): W/r/t the US specifically: it seems there is no shortage of inefficiencies and obvious solutions to the inefficiencies in the US healthcare system. To me, the real problem seems to be a system that has almost diabolically evolved to create competing interests that deadlock all sides into a sub-optimal solution. Specifically-- patients, payers, physicians, pharma, f…

In the united states we can't successfully implement negotiation on drug prices for MediCare . They literally can't negotiate with their suppliers. By law. Anybody thinking software is going to solve that is way in a bubble. http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/09/19/the-politics-of-med...

Though if you refer to the YC Research OP, it doesn't mention anything about the US. Any number of other countries could be markets.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#138
post #103

Healthcare definitely seems like the land of process inefficiency, even in developed countries like here in Canada, so there's plenty of opportunity for major improvement. There's still plenty of paperwork done on... paper, information that constantly has to be repeated when you go from one provider to another, and plenty of mistakes made. Some time ago Ontario spent a massive amount of money on computerizing healthc…

What are you basing the yielded nothing on? Canada is well on it's way to Electronic Health Records.

It was a big time scandal in around 2009: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ehealth-scandal-a-1b-w...

Things may have changed since.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#139

Interestingly, we already discovered a mechanism for drastically reducing the cost of healthcare back in 1986. It's a way of crowdsourcing the problem called high copays . Basically, you have to pay out of pocket for 90% of your health care up to a (high) cap. It turns out that patients are very good at figuring out which health care will improve health and which won't - the high copay group had no statistically sign…

Almost smells like the ACA, doesn't it? Edit: My apologies for sounding a bit antagonistic. The ACA is currently making use of high copays for that reason and more. It also hopes to force more transparency as well as most people want more than a icd-10 code when they have to write a check for $4k.

Healthcare discussions can quickly devolve into flame wars. Please take extra care to comment civilly and substantially.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#140

Healthcare definitely seems like the land of process inefficiency, even in developed countries like here in Canada, so there's plenty of opportunity for major improvement. There's still plenty of paperwork done on... paper, information that constantly has to be repeated when you go from one provider to another, and plenty of mistakes made. Some time ago Ontario spent a massive amount of money on computerizing healthc…

Something has changed recently because it seems almost everything is electronic now.

A few years ago I even subscribed to get all my test results online; I avoided an unnecessary doctor's appointment because I could see the results myself.

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