Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given their start point (a product unfit for public consumption) that is the absolute minimum they need to do. I at least will never trust Mongo for anything but a toy project. There are so many better options out there, options whose technical capabilities are as good as Mongo's marketing.
In the same NoSql space as mongo db? I can't remember not even one that passed fully jepsen test. Can you post some links to the better NoSql options?
MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
41–50 of 165 posts
Re: MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
#42MongoDB receives a fair amount of criticism here but the company is a fantastic place to work. I'm proud that I was able to learn and grow as a developer alongside all of those who have been trying (and succeeding) to make a great database. The team at MongoDB really cares a lot about making the best database product possible. I knew it when I was there and still think so after I've left.
>"MongoDB receives a fair amount of criticism here but the company is a fantastic place to work" None of the criticisms I have ever seen or heard about MongoDB were related to Mongo Inc and their office culture but rather their product.
Exactly, which makes ...
>The team at MongoDB really cares a lot about making the best database product possible.
... some what ironic.
Re: MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given their start point (a product unfit for public consumption) that is the absolute minimum they need to do. I at least will never trust Mongo for anything but a toy project. There are so many better options out there, options whose technical capabilities are as good as Mongo's marketing.
I think if you look back objectively, there are very few database platforms that were absolutely "fit for public consumption" right out of the box. Look at all the SQL Server shops out there (mine included) that won't even roll out a new version of SQL Server until it hits SP 1 at a minimum... For MongoDB, If you look forward based on what they are doing now rather than at how early adopters may have had a sub-optima…
> Can you give an example of another option you are referring to?
That depends on the data.
What type of data you have and what you want to do with it.
MongoDB isn't data specific and it claim to fame is flexible data structure.
If you want fast write and look up with very little relation Cassandra is good.
If you want searchable text document then anything that is base on Lucene is good (ES, Solr, Raven).
If you want time series there are few out there but it's a niche.
Likewise if you want graph data then there are NodeJS, Titan, etc..
MongoDB at most company I worked with was use because they don't think about what type of data it is and what performance they want. They want to store unstructure data cause it's easy.
I personally think it's a cop out, especially as a statistician/programmer.
Re: MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
#44It's been a long way from the "Call Me Maybe: MongoDB" post from years back. Aphyr/Kyle took them to task in so many ways for playing fast and loose with data integrity, and rightly so. MongoDB could have said, "that guy's full of BS, ignore him," but instead they did the smart thing and paid Kyle to help solve the problem. n.b. I can't find the original "Call Me Maybe" post, but this later one [1] is similar. [1]: h…
>paid Kyle to help solve the problem.
Any more information on this? How did he "solve" the problem?
Edit: straight from the horse's mouth [0]
Re: MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
#45Bigger news is that Jepsen tests are now part of the MongoDB continuous integration suite: https://evergreen.mongodb.com/build/mongodb_mongo_master_ubu... Open and available for everyone to see, for every build of MongoDB. Is there another database that has this much transparency? (for every build)
And big news for me is the existence of that Evergreen tool as an open source project. Looks great! Is anyone else using it? Is there a comparison to Jenkins available?
> Is there a comparison to Jenkins available?
Not exactly, but we published a blog post about why we took the time to write a new CI system, and that post does touch upon why we didn't use Jenkins + plugins.
https://engineering.mongodb.com/post/evergreen-continuous-in...
Re: MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given their start point (a product unfit for public consumption) that is the absolute minimum they need to do. I at least will never trust Mongo for anything but a toy project. There are so many better options out there, options whose technical capabilities are as good as Mongo's marketing.
I think if you look back objectively, there are very few database platforms that were absolutely "fit for public consumption" right out of the box. Look at all the SQL Server shops out there (mine included) that won't even roll out a new version of SQL Server until it hits SP 1 at a minimum... For MongoDB, If you look forward based on what they are doing now rather than at how early adopters may have had a sub-optima…
Not the OP, but RethinkDB is superior in many ways including stability, integrity and the feature set for pretty much every use case you would consider using MongoDB.
But with Jespen tests MongoDB can finally be considered a contender. Its not like competent teams were using it in production. Right?
Re: MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given their start point (a product unfit for public consumption) that is the absolute minimum they need to do. I at least will never trust Mongo for anything but a toy project. There are so many better options out there, options whose technical capabilities are as good as Mongo's marketing.
In the same NoSql space as mongo db? I can't remember not even one that passed fully jepsen test. Can you post some links to the better NoSql options?
https://aphyr.com/posts/329-jepsen-rethinkdb-2-1-5
> As far as I can ascertain, RethinkDB’s safety claims are accurate. You can lose updates if you write with anything less than majority, and see assorted read anomalies with single or outdated reads, but majority/majority appears linearizable.
The safety claims are accurate but like all databases, its never 100% perfect as there are tradeoffs.
https://aphyr.com/posts/330-jepsen-rethinkdb-2-2-3-reconfigu...
> That reordering was only possible because of a special workaround for a bug in an older version of RethinkDB.
> What are the risks to users? The RethinkDB team and I suspect it’s unlikely this bug will occur outside of stress testing. Cluster reconfiguration is typically infrequent, and users would need a specific series of network failures or other message delays which happen to cut the replicas apart—in a way which allows both network components to find independent majorities for their respective table configurations. In Jepsen tests, it usually takes tens to hundreds of partition/reconfigure rounds to trigger this bug.
This isn't really an architectural failure (as you see repeatedly with MongoDB) but an implementation bug.
Compared to the failures in MongoDB that are frequently architectural (rather than implementation bugs), RethinkDB passed easily and quickly fixed the implementation bugs.
Re: MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
#48MongoDB 3.4 passes the rigorous and tough Jepsen test. Jepsen designs tests to make databases fail in terms of data consistency, correctness, and safety... MongoDB 3.4 passed through their newest tests. I think that this really shows how mature of a Database MongoDB is.
It's one test, paid for by MongoDB. It's good that they work with the dude. But there's only one test in town.
I want to see more than just one test from more than one source and seeing their sketchy performance in the past only time will tell if this new version will be any better.
> I think that this really shows how mature of a Database MongoDB is.
Yeah no. It's a test. We have to wait and see in productions and see the data to prove that. It's also the first version to past this test. It means something but not a whole lot without real production data and other people attesting to it.
Re: MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
#49Why would anyone use MongoDB when RethinkDB is available?
Is RethinkDB even actively developed anymore? I saw they closed up not too long ago.
Re: MongoDB 3.4.0-rc3
#50Bigger news is that Jepsen tests are now part of the MongoDB continuous integration suite: https://evergreen.mongodb.com/build/mongodb_mongo_master_ubu... Open and available for everyone to see, for every build of MongoDB. Is there another database that has this much transparency? (for every build)
Given their start point (a product unfit for public consumption) that is the absolute minimum they need to do. I at least will never trust Mongo for anything but a toy project. There are so many better options out there, options whose technical capabilities are as good as Mongo's marketing.
I think you're going to end up on the wrong side of this one, if you're not willing to change your opinion based on new info. It's a big deal, his second to last sentence in the intro:
> While the v0 protocol remains broken, patches for v1 are available in MongoDB 3.2.12 and 3.4.0, and now pass the expanded Jepsen test suite.