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The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

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Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#81

Post by nightcracker »

Kaotique wrote: post #10

There are a couple reasons why there are so little people in jail in the Netherlands and not all are positive. Crime reporting rate has never been lower. People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught or even convicted. Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amount…

I have never felt unsafe in the Netherlands, nor do I consider crime a big problem. This is a n=1 anecdote, but I am perfectly happy with the current system and would consider harsher punishments or longer prison sentences a downgrade.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#82

Post by raarts »

nightcracker wrote: post #81
Kaotique wrote: post #10

There are a couple reasons why there are so little people in jail in the Netherlands and not all are positive. Crime reporting rate has never been lower. People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught or even convicted. Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amount…

I have never felt unsafe in the Netherlands, nor do I consider crime a big problem. This is a n=1 anecdote, but I am perfectly happy with the current system and would consider harsher punishments or longer prison sentences a downgrade.

Completely agree. Have an upvote!

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#83

Post by brianwawok »

doug1001 wrote: post #79
dmd wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a pretty good lesson to learn?

just my opinion as a father of a six-year old girl: it is indeed a good lesson to learn--eventually. Whether it's a good lesson to learn now depends (or at least it would for me) on the child's age.

Agreed. I am if anything overly pessimistic on the world.. but I don't think 6 is the right age for that lesson :)

Learn cops are your friend as a kid. It might help them someday (lost at store etc. etc). Then when they start to drive, maybe it is time for a youtube video on "no, don't consent to a search of your car even if you have nothing to hide - here is why".

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#84

Post by alistairSH »

thfuran wrote: post #59
sixothree wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the only way to solve this is to ensure the plea is within some margin of the actual charges.

We need many times more public defenders so people have representation actually able to spend time on the case.

Even with a competent lawyer, how many will be willing to roll the dice on a trial?

Take a fairly "common" drunk in public... should be a night in jail and fine, or similar. But, a poorly trained cop was involved, so they're now adding resisting arrest (another misdemeanor) AND assaulting a police officer (felony with mandatory minimum sentencing).

Now, instead of fighting the original misdemeanor on it's merits, you're pleading guilty to it to avoid a potentially life-ruining felony.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#85

Post by verylittlemeat »

radicalbyte wrote: post #53

The system here is a bit weird. We pay large sums of money to the dutch equivalent of Al Capone then wonder why there are problems with organized crime in Amsterdam.

I'm just curious, who is Al Capone in your example?

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#87

Post by Avalaxy »

icebraining wrote: post #11
Avalaxy wrote: post #7

For reference: in 2016, the Dutch police only investigated 157 cases out of 50,000 cases of internet fraud. So it's not like we don't have any criminals, the police just doesn't do shit about it.

Frankly, investigating internet fraud seems like a fool's errand in most cases. I wonder what's the closing rate for those that do get investigated; probably minuscule.

I found out who the scammer was, supplied the police with ALL the evidence, including the guy's address, phone number, etc. The police decided to not even investigate the case. And I'm not allowed to go to the guy's house and beat him up or threaten him, otherwise I would be the one who's in trouble.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#88

Post by pc86 »

jimmywanger wrote: post #80
xxs wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> if you commit armed robbery... There are significantly less guns available compared to the US, so armed robberies are likely heavily punished too. While I don't say all sentences should be light as a feather, there are a lot of 'jails' (especially in Norway) where the inmates can go home for the evening or weekend.

Armed does not imply gun. It implies weapon of any sort. I'm not even sure if just the implied threat of a weapon elevates it to armed robbery. But if you threaten somebody with a knife or club, I think you still get charged with armed robbery.

The exact wording varies by state in the US, but in my state if you make someone think you're armed, legally speaking you are armed.

To use an apocryphal/urban legend example, if you stick a candy bar in a sweatshirt and point it at a cashier, that will receive the same punishment as if you pointed a loaded handgun at them.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#89

Post by radicalbyte »

verylittlemeat wrote: post #85
radicalbyte wrote: post #53

The system here is a bit weird. We pay large sums of money to the dutch equivalent of Al Capone then wonder why there are problems with organized crime in Amsterdam.

I'm just curious, who is Al Capone in your example?

Cees H, he's a (former?) drug lord. Guy had like $700m of his illicit profits in cash. Which is a lot in Holland. For some reason the state paid him ~$2m in compensation after he was released from jail. For being caught?

A minister recently resigned because they lied about it:

http://www.euronews.com/2017/01/27/dutch-minister-resigns-ov...

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#90

Post by verylittlemeat »

radicalbyte wrote: post #89
verylittlemeat wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just curious, who is Al Capone in your example?

Cees H, he's a (former?) drug lord. Guy had like $700m of his illicit profits in cash. Which is a lot in Holland. For some reason the state paid him ~$2m in compensation after he was released from jail. For being caught? A minister recently resigned because they lied about it: http://www.euronews.com/2017/01/27/dutch-minister-resigns-ov...

interesting thanks for the reply I'm gonna read more about this
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