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Violating Terms of Use Isn’t a Crime, EFF Tells Court

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41–50 of 104 posts

Re: Violating Terms of Use Isn’t a Crime, EFF Tells Court

#41
Isn't it nice if ToS is legally binding?

1. Make a website and write somewhere in the middle of ToS that visitor must pay $1000 (for example) for every page viewed or for every second spent on a site

2. Persuade him to press "I have read and agree to the ToS" and to stay as long as possible

3. Send a bill

Re: Violating Terms of Use Isn’t a Crime, EFF Tells Court

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think ToS should be able to be enforced either So how to deal with abusive users then? Hand wave and say it is okay to block them for certain actions that are not terms of service? And of course arbitrary terms of service already can't be enforced.

If you want a user to agree to something, you ask them if they agree to it and below that have two radio buttons labeled "Yes, I agree", or "No, I don't agree". Neither of them should be selected by default. You do this for every term you want them to agree to, not some general "Do you agree to these terms of service". As long as you don't build this in a way that encourages people to mindlessly go through the list a…

Those are still terms of service.

Re: Violating Terms of Use Isn’t a Crime, EFF Tells Court

#44
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. The argument that it is a crime comes down to arguments around what constitutes 'unauthorised access'. As 'unauthorised access' to a computer system is a crime, if you make your definition of 'authorised' "access subject to our terms of use" : Huzzah! Violating your terms of use is now a crime! This all comes back to laws written in wooly "the courts will work it out" language.

I wonder if placing a cookie on my computer without prior written consent constitutes "unauthorized access". Class action anyone?

In Britain it's illegal for a website to store a cookie without informing you, so I have a feeling someone may have already tried this.

Re: Violating Terms of Use Isn’t a Crime, EFF Tells Court

#45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate on the flaw in their system that you exploited? I'm sure I'm not the only one interested.

Sure. This was somewhere around 10 years ago so my memory is slightly fuzzy on all the technical details but heres the gist of it: As an operator your main interface to their system was a Java desktop application. Basically you sit there waiting for it to go 'ding!', you read the question, and accept if you think you're capable of answering. You would research (they heavily pushed their sources but Google was better…

>> honestly this was a decent lesson for 15 year old me

And not a bad lesson for the company, either :)

Re: Violating Terms of Use Isn’t a Crime, EFF Tells Court

#46
post #36
post #4

Does anyone know the details of what was being automatically downloaded? I'm aware of several Open Source projects doing this with things like Java, but not if any of them have received cease and desist orders.

The only mentions I can find refer to "support materials" for assisting clients - That could broadly mean everything from documentation to firmware (which they hold on to tightly with cold, dead hands). Rimini's website seems to suggest they were probably accessing everything. The fact that they were making money off it - and ignored a request to stop - is probably the main difference between this and going after ope…

Shouldn't that be an issue of copyright then?

Re: Violating Terms of Use Isn’t a Crime, EFF Tells Court

#47

Isn't it nice if ToS is legally binding? 1. Make a website and write somewhere in the middle of ToS that visitor must pay $1000 (for example) for every page viewed or for every second spent on a site 2. Persuade him to press "I have read and agree to the ToS" and to stay as long as possible 3. Send a bill

Then at what point does something become binding on the Internet? Most of my financial work over the last year has involved e-signed contracts. I typed my name and the date, certifying I had read and understand the contract - the difference between that and certifying that I've read the ToS via a checkbox seems arbitrary.

Re: Violating Terms of Use Isn’t a Crime, EFF Tells Court

#48

Isn't it nice if ToS is legally binding? 1. Make a website and write somewhere in the middle of ToS that visitor must pay $1000 (for example) for every page viewed or for every second spent on a site 2. Persuade him to press "I have read and agree to the ToS" and to stay as long as possible 3. Send a bill

I was thinking I'd add a header to all my HTTP requests:

    X-Terms-of-Service: This HTTP request is subject to the terms of use published
      at https://example.com/tos. By responding to this request you are accepting 
      these terms and conditions in full.

Re: Violating Terms of Use Isn’t a Crime, EFF Tells Court

#50
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. The argument that it is a crime comes down to arguments around what constitutes 'unauthorised access'. As 'unauthorised access' to a computer system is a crime, if you make your definition of 'authorised' "access subject to our terms of use" : Huzzah! Violating your terms of use is now a crime! This all comes back to laws written in wooly "the courts will work it out" language.

I wonder if placing a cookie on my computer without prior written consent constitutes "unauthorized access". Class action anyone?

It's your own browser that interprets the header, saves the cookie, and passes it back to sites you visit. Passing a "here's a cookie" header to your machine doesn't, on its own, do anything. Your browser has to actively parse and store it.
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