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What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

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Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#171

Post by DavidSJ »

diamondlovesyou wrote: post #170

What I'm about to say may go against what many of the HN community believes. This isn't an attack on anyone's beliefs; I'm merely expressing my thoughts in an attempt to solicit constructive discourse. I'mma be honest. I don't understand the repulsion at the possibility of corporation X knowing my personal info, (excluding the usual things like bank account info, SSNs, etc) like my location, search history, etc. To b…

What do you think the corporation does with your personal info when the government asks for it?

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#172

Post by mindviews »

diamondlovesyou wrote: post #170

What I'm about to say may go against what many of the HN community believes. This isn't an attack on anyone's beliefs; I'm merely expressing my thoughts in an attempt to solicit constructive discourse. I'mma be honest. I don't understand the repulsion at the possibility of corporation X knowing my personal info, (excluding the usual things like bank account info, SSNs, etc) like my location, search history, etc. To b…

It's the lack of transparency that's the real problem. I like to know as much as I can when something I own is sharing personally identifiable data about me and my habits to companies (and governments). The fact that the whole effort on Vizio's part was under the radar means that consumers lacked important information about the functioning of their TV's. If they had known about the depth and breadth of the data collection, maybe some portion of purchasers would have made other decisions. Once that's on the table, then you're free to make the choice to let that data be shared if you're comfortable with it (as you indicate you'd be in your case).

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#173

Post by makecheck »

diamondlovesyou wrote: post #170

What I'm about to say may go against what many of the HN community believes. This isn't an attack on anyone's beliefs; I'm merely expressing my thoughts in an attempt to solicit constructive discourse. I'mma be honest. I don't understand the repulsion at the possibility of corporation X knowing my personal info, (excluding the usual things like bank account info, SSNs, etc) like my location, search history, etc. To b…

One thing to consider is that regardless of original motivations, once data has been collected by any party, that data CAN come into another party’s possession. Maybe the company network is not secure and the data is just stolen. Maybe a disgruntled employee screws them over. Maybe the company is bought out by someone else with different goals.

The point is that you can never assume that something will only be available to certain people for certain purposes. Even if you know this at one point in time, things change.

Therefore, one must expect and demand the highest security throughout technology stacks, and implement laws to clean up whatever cannot be guaranteed by security technologies.

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#174

Post by moonfern »

hueving wrote: post #133
AJ007 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting this. When I saw the original FTC story I recalled reading about this once or twice in the past but couldn't think of any key phrases or sources. In response to some of the other comments here, basically what they are guilty of isn't spying but failing to properly disclose and opt-in users. There is a particular major AV vendor who is selling raw clickstream data of millions of their user's interne…

>here is a particular major AV vendor who is selling raw clickstream data of millions of their user's internet usage directly to marketers and other parties right now. As far as I can tell, as long as it is buried somewhere in the terms and conditions no one cares. ugh. Name them please! If it's in the ToS they shouldn't mind being called out.

Avast, source https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13079569 AJ007

Here are the terms, it's in section 8.Privacy, processing of personal information. https://www.avast.com/eula-avast-free-products

However "AVAST may publish or share such information with third parties that are not part of the AVAST Group but will only ever do so after removing personally identifiable information."

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#175

Post by gech »

diamondlovesyou wrote: post #170

What I'm about to say may go against what many of the HN community believes. This isn't an attack on anyone's beliefs; I'm merely expressing my thoughts in an attempt to solicit constructive discourse. I'mma be honest. I don't understand the repulsion at the possibility of corporation X knowing my personal info, (excluding the usual things like bank account info, SSNs, etc) like my location, search history, etc. To b…

I think your idea of distinction between "governments" and "corporations" is naive

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#177

Post by 010a »

wrsh07 wrote: post #36
jasonwilk wrote: post #21

It's not worth buying any of these 'Smart' TVs. I don't know whether it is a shoddy developer experience provided by the likes of Samsung / Vizeo etc or if it's the developers themselves (Hulu I'm looking at you) who do not maintain their apps which are constantly bug filled. I much prefer my old dumb TV that has a Roku plugged into it. Oh yeah, and I know it's not WATCHING ME.

If you want a high end tv you don't have much choice. But also, why do you not expect your Roku / apple tv / etc to be watching you?

Honestly, I'm 100% more fine with Apple spying on me than pretty much anyone else. I'm less perturbed with the entire concept of spying than I am with who is doing it.

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#178

Post by irontoby »

mindviews wrote: post #172
diamondlovesyou wrote: post #170

What I'm about to say may go against what many of the HN community believes. This isn't an attack on anyone's beliefs; I'm merely expressing my thoughts in an attempt to solicit constructive discourse. I'mma be honest. I don't understand the repulsion at the possibility of corporation X knowing my personal info, (excluding the usual things like bank account info, SSNs, etc) like my location, search history, etc. To b…

It's the lack of transparency that's the real problem. I like to know as much as I can when something I own is sharing personally identifiable data about me and my habits to companies (and governments). The fact that the whole effort on Vizio's part was under the radar means that consumers lacked important information about the functioning of their TV's. If they had known about the depth and breadth of the data colle…

Yes, yes, yes. For example I am perfectly okay with Google slurping up every bit of data they can about me, tracking my every move etc. because the benefit I receive (i.e. really spooky-accurate suggestions & info in Google Now) is worth the privacy tradeoff.

Also, based on their past actions and statements, my level of trust with them is very high that they will be transparent with their uses of that data and that they will diligently guard against that data being put to other uses that they or I didn't allow.

But what Vizio has done here makes it perfectly clear that providing any benefit to the end users was never their goal and that keeping the true nature of this program secret was an intentional act. That's enough to ensure I'll never buy a Vizio product in the future.

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#179

Post by OkGoDoIt »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #97
AJ007 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting this. When I saw the original FTC story I recalled reading about this once or twice in the past but couldn't think of any key phrases or sources. In response to some of the other comments here, basically what they are guilty of isn't spying but failing to properly disclose and opt-in users. There is a particular major AV vendor who is selling raw clickstream data of millions of their user's interne…

This is why i torrent behind a VPN despite being subscribed to HBO now, Netflix, and Amazon Video. My guilt is ameliorated and at least a sliver of ny privacy is maintained.

I thought Netflix and related services work the same way Spotify does: they pay content providers a small fee based on actual content viewing. If you pay Netflix a monthly subscription but never view any content on your account, I would assume Netflix keeps all of the revenue and doesn't pay out anything to the actual content providers. Just a guess, but it's possible your plan is backfiring by paying the company you don't want to support (since Netflix is the one implementing the tracking) instead of the companies you do (that actually create the content you like).

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#180

Post by astrange »

gregmac wrote: post #124
FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the consumer infatuation with "smart", Internet connected devices, especially smart homes. Yes auto lighting and hvac systems are cool, but it introduces so many security vulnerabities that it's not worth it. I dont ever see myself using autonomous, internet connected cars. I cant think of a bigger hacking target for terrorists and mischief makers alike.

> "smart", Internet connected devices, especially smart homes. I have a "smart" home (well, parts of it -- it's expensive to do everything!). It turns on a few select lights when it gets dark out, unless there are already lights on (eg: we're home) in which case it doesn't change anything. It turns lights off late at night in case we forget. It turns the front lights on at 30% between dusk and midnight, and cranks to…

I have a regular light switch for my Hue lights, but also have some timers set up from my phone that change their colors in the morning/evening.

If I'm gone or even if I lose the phone, I really wonder if anyone else will ever figure out how to shut that off. They'll probably just throw the bulbs out.

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