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What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

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Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#121

Post by pdimitar »

Neliquat wrote: post #117
tucif wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ask for network access Assuming you have a decent router that supports wpa2 I find it difficult to believe a TV would crack it.

Agreed, but. Most just bug you about 'updates' ad nausem until you have a moment of weakness and punch it in. At least some will autoconnect to open wifi. Sure YOURS is locked down, but what about your neighbors? Just 'turning it "off"' is not enough for even casual security.

Exactly what you said. Even if I do my very best to secure my router and blacklist the TV's Mac address (and never give it the wifi password), how do I know that my neighbours won't mistakenly let their WiFi open for a day or two until they realize their mistake? Or if I tether my mobile data from my phone and turn into a router, that I might forget to secure it?

All it takes is one small slip.

I'd rather never take the risk. I'll just look for a dumb huge TV; I need 65+ inches, good luck to me, right?

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#122

Post by ThinkingGuy »

jasonwilk wrote: post #21

It's not worth buying any of these 'Smart' TVs. I don't know whether it is a shoddy developer experience provided by the likes of Samsung / Vizeo etc or if it's the developers themselves (Hulu I'm looking at you) who do not maintain their apps which are constantly bug filled. I much prefer my old dumb TV that has a Roku plugged into it. Oh yeah, and I know it's not WATCHING ME.

I feel the same way about smart TVs, but I'm starting to have my doubts about the Roku. A few months ago I was trying out an open source DLNA media player. I tested it playing a single WAV file from my server using the Roku Media Player. A day or two later, we turned on the TV, switched to the Roku, and were greeted with an advertisement for a concert video by the exact band I had listened to. Now, I'm pretty sure the ad was not based on our the past viewing habits of our household - my wife does 99.9% of the Roku streaming, and her music preferences are completely different than mine.

Now, I know this is just a single anecdote, and that it could very well have been a coincidence, and that in the grand scheme of thing this is one of the more innocuous uses of tracking, but it was still a somewhat though-provoking experience.

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#124

Post by gregmac »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #103
jasonwilk wrote: post #21

It's not worth buying any of these 'Smart' TVs. I don't know whether it is a shoddy developer experience provided by the likes of Samsung / Vizeo etc or if it's the developers themselves (Hulu I'm looking at you) who do not maintain their apps which are constantly bug filled. I much prefer my old dumb TV that has a Roku plugged into it. Oh yeah, and I know it's not WATCHING ME.

I don't understand the consumer infatuation with "smart", Internet connected devices, especially smart homes. Yes auto lighting and hvac systems are cool, but it introduces so many security vulnerabities that it's not worth it. I dont ever see myself using autonomous, internet connected cars. I cant think of a bigger hacking target for terrorists and mischief makers alike.

> "smart", Internet connected devices, especially smart homes.

I have a "smart" home (well, parts of it -- it's expensive to do everything!).

It turns on a few select lights when it gets dark out, unless there are already lights on (eg: we're home) in which case it doesn't change anything. It turns lights off late at night in case we forget. It turns the front lights on at 30% between dusk and midnight, and cranks to 100% anytime between dusk and dawn if there's motion or the garage door is open (then gradually puts them back to what they were). Most useful, there's buttons on the kitchen keypad labelled "Dim" "Bright" and "Off" that adjust the lights over the island, sink, table, and under-cabinet and range hood (all separate). Another useful one is the "all off" button by the front door -- there's no corresponding "all on" because (as mentioned above) that happens automatically, and we never walk into a dark house.

All of it can be controlled from any PC/tablet/phone, and of course all of it could be done over the internet -- except that I don't have any of the ports open, because I don't see the point. The ability of connected switches to be controlled by other switches/motion/time yet still allow manual operation is very nice, and it's significantly cheaper than a massive re-wiring project.

I hate that there's this huge craze that confuses "smart" with "on the internet". It's an entire industry that is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#125

Post by reddog »

pdimitar wrote: post #78
fencepost wrote: post #47

This sounds like an excellent reason to simply never connect the TV to the Internet and to simply connect your own system to the TV whether it be a stick PC or something with a little more oompf.

That's what I plan to do but it still makes me nervous that the "smart" part of the TV might secretly contact my router and ask for network access. I have zero proof but I became paranoid recently. :( The reasonable tradeoff would be to buy a high-quality "dumb" TV with a very good screen. At least I hope so.

Last time I looked, dumb TVs were expensive and hard to find. I assumed that is because the manufacturer can make fat bank off Netflix, Amazon, et al. by including their apps. Not to mention the possible revenue made off this kind of secret monitoring. That probably makes a huge difference in a low margin business like TV manufacturing.

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#126

Post by hoppa_liza »

jaimex2 wrote: post #123

I caught my TV doing this and went to war. For the last two years I have had a service running that floods garbage data back to the collection point from several addresses throughout the Internet. You're welcome.

Care to elaborate on this? How you caught it, what and how are you sending back to them?

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#127

Post by bduerst »

khedoros1 wrote: post #102
bduerst wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still find OLED or 4K off-brand "dumb" TVs, like from Hisense and Selki, but you run the risk of terrible support.

Don't those often use B-grade panels from other manufacturers? I know Hisense has the reputation for punching above its weight, but I wouldn't expect them to produce "high end" TVs.

Not for Hisense televisions, but I don't know for Seiki. The former is basically a high quality panel with crappy speakers.

Hisense is also now selling under the Sharp brand name.

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#128

Post by foxylad »

jasonwilk wrote: post #21

It's not worth buying any of these 'Smart' TVs. I don't know whether it is a shoddy developer experience provided by the likes of Samsung / Vizeo etc or if it's the developers themselves (Hulu I'm looking at you) who do not maintain their apps which are constantly bug filled. I much prefer my old dumb TV that has a Roku plugged into it. Oh yeah, and I know it's not WATCHING ME.

Agreed. We have a dumb Sony 40" LCD that is over ten years old. It's not 4K but our eyes aren't good enough to see the difference, and over the years we've used a range of front ends - currently a Raspberry Pi running Kodi (with the HiFiberry sound card - awesome!).

This has been very economic, and environmentally friendly, and I can't see why we can't continue for several more years with the same screen.

Re: What Vizio was doing behind the TV screen

#130

Post by silveira »

> Consumers have bought more than 11 million internet-connected Vizio televisions since 2010.

> The order also includes a $1.5 million payment to the FTC and an additional civil penalty to New Jersey for a total of $2.2 million.

> Vizio then turned that mountain of data into cash by selling consumers’ viewing histories to advertisers and others.

$2.2 million / 11 million tvs = $0.20 per tv

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