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The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

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Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of those solved crimes only a percentage reaches an actual conviction for the criminal. Well, that's literally true anywhere. Besides, a very high conviction rate indicates an unhealthy judicial system: http://www.economist.com/node/8680941

98% accused of the crime in US plead guilty.

Remember Aaron Swartz? If keeping some semblance of life respect matters one would better plead guilty and be done with.

On a flip note, any source for that '98%'?

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#52
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it's a positive. But the fact that criminals are not put in jail but at home is a major contributor the emptiness of our jails. If people aren't in jail it doesn't mean there is no crime. Many crimes are committed by other Europeans and Dutch criminals who commit crimes in Germany across the border. For instance ramming or exploding ATMs in Germany by Dutch organised crime happens a lot. When looking a…

Completely agree. I lived in Hungary, where the crime rate is relatively low compared to the whole Europe. But you can't actually go to an open market without securing your pockets. Now I live in Scotland, which amongst the highest crime rate countries in Europe, but it feels much safer to walk through Glasgow than to walk through Budapest. This is because every single small pickpocket is reported and usually caught.…

Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania have something in common when it comes to pickpocket... and overall petty theft.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

98% accused of the crime in US plead guilty.

That's not a good thing. It frequently comes down to... Plead guilty to a misdemeanor and a few months behind bars. Or, go to trial, face a felony charge, with increased risks to later life (felony = more jail-time, harder to find a job, etc).

I feel like the only way to solve this is to ensure the plea is within some margin of the actual charges.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#55
post #4

This sounds like a great thing to me. Is the sentiment expressed in the article by MP Nine Kooiman that empty cells means more people should be arrested a common one in The Netherlands?

Not really, no. Crime rates have been steadily declining for years. The SP is a minority party which never had a seat in government (even though they were founded in the 70's). They are mostly worried about the job losses this would cause.

They could always dedicate themselves to committing more crime.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#56

There are a couple reasons why there are so little people in jail in the Netherlands and not all are positive. Crime reporting rate has never been lower. People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught or even convicted. Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amount…

> People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught I thought that way too, but it's not all bad. I was recently positively surprised when the police actually investigated a bike theft that I reported (online) and caught and prosecuted the thief! Court session is next month, I'm going and will take my daughter (who's bike it was) there to learn...

Good, the judge will probably let you or her say something.

Don't know if its with all cases, but the sentencing is usually in the 2 weeks after the session.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#57
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it's a positive. But the fact that criminals are not put in jail but at home is a major contributor the emptiness of our jails. If people aren't in jail it doesn't mean there is no crime. Many crimes are committed by other Europeans and Dutch criminals who commit crimes in Germany across the border. For instance ramming or exploding ATMs in Germany by Dutch organised crime happens a lot. When looking a…

Completely agree. I lived in Hungary, where the crime rate is relatively low compared to the whole Europe. But you can't actually go to an open market without securing your pockets. Now I live in Scotland, which amongst the highest crime rate countries in Europe, but it feels much safer to walk through Glasgow than to walk through Budapest. This is because every single small pickpocket is reported and usually caught.…

I'd be more scared to get stabbed in Glasgow than in Amsterdam though.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#58

There are a couple reasons why there are so little people in jail in the Netherlands and not all are positive. Crime reporting rate has never been lower. People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught or even convicted. Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amount…

Agree on many points, not all. But most of all I would like to add that the Police has seen so many budget cuts and downsizing that they just don't have the people to do much.

In my city there are no patrols, there is no time to patrol. If there are then it is incidental.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a good thing. It frequently comes down to... Plead guilty to a misdemeanor and a few months behind bars. Or, go to trial, face a felony charge, with increased risks to later life (felony = more jail-time, harder to find a job, etc).

I feel like the only way to solve this is to ensure the plea is within some margin of the actual charges.

We need many times more public defenders so people have representation actually able to spend time on the case.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#60
post #13

There are a couple reasons why there are so little people in jail in the Netherlands and not all are positive. Crime reporting rate has never been lower. People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught or even convicted. Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amount…

> Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amounts get solved. How is this number different from other developed nations? > It's very common for judges to pass a community services punishment or an electronic ankle bracelet house arrest. If recidivism is low, how is that possibly not a positive?

> How is this number different from other developed nations?

Germany fares much better in this regard, about 56% gets solved I think.

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