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Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

students.googleblog.com

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Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#141

The amount of negativity in the comments section here is astounding. How could you not be excited and happy for this promising young woman's achievement? No, her work will not put her on the shortlist for a Turing Award. But it is something any engineer should be proud of, and has real impact for millions of users. You have a right to be unimpressed, but if you're taking the time to say "So what?" or "This is just a…

Even if this is a recruiting post... let's stick to the facts: Her work has nevertheless saved 1.5 PB per day. All of the people who are saying that everybody can do this and implement this: I bet your hacker excellent skills cannot save 1.5 PB traffic per day. And it's nice to see that an interns work can have so great results. Kudos to Google that they have great programs for young people. And I'm also forever than…

Most people don't work at companies that have 1.5 PB of traffic per day. The question to ask is if another intern in the same position would be able to accomplish what she did of integrating a library into an application.

Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#142

The amount of negativity in the comments section here is astounding. How could you not be excited and happy for this promising young woman's achievement? No, her work will not put her on the shortlist for a Turing Award. But it is something any engineer should be proud of, and has real impact for millions of users. You have a right to be unimpressed, but if you're taking the time to say "So what?" or "This is just a…

Well, HN is where rather technical discussions take place.

And from a technological viewpoint, some people here may find that swapping gzip/etc for brotli is not that astonishing. After all, she didn't invent or implement Brotli, but merely applied it.

Note, this is not to denigrate her work in any way - the results, scaled at Google's level, are very impressive.

It is sad to see this turn into a gender-focused discussion, as I'm sure we'd see all the same "meh" comments here regardless of intern's gender or any other physical traits.

Also, I've noticed this trend where the top comment is attacking over-exaggerated "astounding negativity". There's skepticism here under nearly every article, and the odd couple of dead, downvoted comments; not "astounding negativity" by any means. While it's challenging to resist the desire to virtue signal and collect karma points, please don't exaggerate.

Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#143
This compression technique seems to be based on the fact they have previous installation of an app that can be diffed and patched, so it wouldn't receive any benefit from first installations, only updates. But still might be worth it for many applications. I remember I investigated a way to send and apply diffs of javascript code (using a js version of patch) and store in the browser using localstorage. However, at the time the performance wasn't good enough when compared in an end to end benchmark.

However, this has got me wondering as a general corollary for application delivery...would it just make more sense to use something like a well-pruned and compact git repo, and make the connections over HTTP with gzip compression? I'm not sure how space efficient the git repo is but may seem like an interesting project. I'm wary of using any Google technology, open source or not if it can be done yourself in an afternoon.

Does such a thing even exist?

Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#144

The amount of negativity in the comments section here is astounding. How could you not be excited and happy for this promising young woman's achievement? No, her work will not put her on the shortlist for a Turing Award. But it is something any engineer should be proud of, and has real impact for millions of users. You have a right to be unimpressed, but if you're taking the time to say "So what?" or "This is just a…

I think the reaction arose because of the person being put on the spotlight would not have been so if she have been a male. Meritocracy being part of the dev culture, promoting somebody achieving regular stuff because of the gender is ill-perceived. It's like when you go to a conference, and half of the talks are a promoted minority of some sort but they are not that good. You feel cheated. The fact is there are wome…

There is almost certainly a degree of 'diversity PR' about this post - specifically because this is an intern simply 'doing her job' by implementing an alg she was probably asked to implement. And I'm certain interns are doing all sorts of cool stuff at G that we don't talk about.

But ...

That said, it's probably ok. I do believe that tech is more or less 'meritocratic' ... but surveys on 'why there are not more women in tech' answered by 'men' indicate 'not enough women getting tech degrees' - while answers by 'women' indicate 'not enough role models'. Which is understandable. If women are 'turned off' or less assertively, merely 'not excited' or 'don't think it's for them' because they don't see enough faces doing something, and it affects their choices ... well then it's fair to be a little bit lopsided on what Google choses to promote, especially as it relates to entry-level stuff.

So as long as it isn't flogged too hard, I think that highlighting someone's work is reasonable, and if it helps some 'hey, you can do this too!' communication, that's fine.

Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#145
I've seen replies about how this is a "simple library swap" and so doesn't deserve the attention it recognition it has received. As some who works at Google but not anywhere remotely near this project, but with experience in similar projects, I'd like to shed some light on why this isn't a simple library swap, and seems from far away to have been both a tremendous accomplishment and a wonderful learning experience.

First off, there is no such thing as a library swap at Google. Our codebase is quite large. Like shockingly overwhelmingly large. Executing a change like this is almost certainly not a case of "swapping out one configuration line for another." It requires writing new code, testing it appropriately, updating any integration tests, updating documentation, etc. But the real fun starts when you're done coding...

There's the issue of frontend and backend. Serving Brotli-compressed data is great, but what if you're app doesn't support it? If you're lucky, this will be handled by the underlying network layer but then you have to deal with...

Rollout. I don't know how many servers are dedicated to app updates, but I imagine it's a lot. I also imagine they're distributed geographically, across regions and probably even continents. Getting all those servers to support new features is a delicate, time consuming process where any misstep will result in users noticing. It's not coding, but that's why it's called "software engineering" and not "coding engineering." But then once you're servers are all up and running you have to deal with...

Versioning. Updating backend servers is bad enough, but at least you control them. What about that zoo of Android versions out in the wild? How do you ensure they all support this changes? Short answer: you don't. You design a strategy that will allow the rollout to happen gradually over a period of time, and closely monitor it to make sure nothing unintended is happening.

Then how do you turn down the old feature? When do you turn it down? You need to build and properly use instrumentation to determine the safest time to kill off the old feature. Or you could never kill it and commit to paying the cost in perpetuity. That's a design decision, and not a trivial one.

But, odds are you're not the only feature being rolled out. You have to anticipate/deal with potential interactions with other features, rollbacks of other people's work, etc.

I could go on, but I think I've already demonstrated why this is by no means a trivial accomplishment, even for a full time engineer. Add to this the fact that every intern has to race against the clock to get ramped up on their project, making something of this complexity and with this large an impact happen deserves applause.

I should add, I'm speaking as myself here and not representing Google in any way.

Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#146
post #19

So she used a compression algorithm developed by other googlers? So what? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she did a lot of work for it, but looks like a lot of people would have been able to do that, there is nothing innovative in what she did, right?

> So she used a compression algorithm developed by other googlers? Yes. > So what? So she saved 1.5PB per day - which no other Googler did. Nor you or me. She did. > Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she did a lot of work for it, but looks like a lot of people would have been able to do that, there is nothing innovative in what she did, right? If it was that easy, why wasn't done already? Why did she have to come along to…

From the article:

"Anamaria’s project was to add support for Brotli for both new app installs and app updates."

So someone else told her to do it, if she wasn't there some other intern would have made the same savings.

Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#147
post #65
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you worried at all about their patents stance. I currently I think it says if you litigate with Facebook you lose the license. Otherwise I agree zstd is looking like a very nice improvement in an area where most people think nothing happens. I especially dictionary compression bit.

Looks like they're using the BSD license in this project, https://github.com/facebook/zstd/blob/dev/LICENSE So no need to worry about the patent clause in this case right?

Check out their patents file

Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#148
post #137
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1.5 petabytes of savings in data usage per day is not HN worthy? Well it is, but the merit should come first to the engineers who implemented the Brotli algorithm. What Anamaria did was just to include the code for that algorithm in the Play Store. Sure, it's some good work, especially for an intern, but I think it's a big exaggeration to say that it is that work that saved 1.5 petabytes/day.

Deploying this at global scale was more than just changing some config and walking away. I'm sure things went wrong, changes had to be rolled back, lessons were learned. "just include the code", seriously, do you even deploy apps at scale?

You are perfectly right, and no, I haven't deployed anythong at the scale of Google. On the other hand, deployments at that scale are routinely done at Google, Facebook and Amazon amongst other tech giants, so an intern doing it shouldn't warrant an article.

Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#149

The amount of negativity in the comments section here is astounding. How could you not be excited and happy for this promising young woman's achievement? No, her work will not put her on the shortlist for a Turing Award. But it is something any engineer should be proud of, and has real impact for millions of users. You have a right to be unimpressed, but if you're taking the time to say "So what?" or "This is just a…

If my impression was anything to go by, I clicked on the original title of "Intern saves Google 15M GB every day" (something like that) expecting to hear what on earth could have saved that much bandwidth. Instead, I got an advertisement for how great this woman is. (But, now that you want to hire her, too bad, she's already taken.) There was just one sentence that talked about what I went there for: namely, she changed the compression algorithm. If the title were "Look how awesome this Google intern is" I wouldn't have had a problem with it. On the other hand, I woudn't have clicked it, either.

Re: Intern Impact: Brotli compression for Play Store app downloads

#150

she didn't create a compression algorithm. More akin to enabling GZIP in IIS...

If you had an intern that was responsible for turning GZIP on in IIS for a website that had 1B users it starts to become much more of an accomplishment.

Even small changes at that scale require careful analysis and coordination.

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