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The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

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Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#11
post #7

For reference: in 2016, the Dutch police only investigated 157 cases out of 50,000 cases of internet fraud. So it's not like we don't have any criminals, the police just doesn't do shit about it.

Frankly, investigating internet fraud seems like a fool's errand in most cases. I wonder what's the closing rate for those that do get investigated; probably minuscule.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#13

There are a couple reasons why there are so little people in jail in the Netherlands and not all are positive. Crime reporting rate has never been lower. People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught or even convicted. Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amount…

> Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amounts get solved.

How is this number different from other developed nations?

> It's very common for judges to pass a community services punishment or an electronic ankle bracelet house arrest.

If recidivism is low, how is that possibly not a positive?

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#14

There are a couple reasons why there are so little people in jail in the Netherlands and not all are positive. Crime reporting rate has never been lower. People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught or even convicted. Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amount…

Out of those solved crimes only a percentage reaches an actual conviction for the criminal.

Well, that's literally true anywhere. Besides, a very high conviction rate indicates an unhealthy judicial system: http://www.economist.com/node/8680941

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#15

Misleading article. I'm from the netherlands and a lot of police interviews report lack off financial support and manpower. Only criminals that get caught end up in jail.. Criminals who do not get caught are criminals nevertheless.. And they stil do criminal things. Correlation =/= Causation.

OTOH, the murder rate in 2015 was also the lowest in 20 years: http://nltimes.nl/2016/07/29/netherlands-murder-rate-20-year...

In loads of cases questionable deaths haven't been investigated on how they died. Meaning: lots of murders aren't being reported/seen as murder. Unfortunately do not have an article/reference for this, despite trying to find it.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#16
post #13

There are a couple reasons why there are so little people in jail in the Netherlands and not all are positive. Crime reporting rate has never been lower. People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught or even convicted. Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amount…

> Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amounts get solved. How is this number different from other developed nations? > It's very common for judges to pass a community services punishment or an electronic ankle bracelet house arrest. If recidivism is low, how is that possibly not a positive?

I'm not saying it's a positive. But the fact that criminals are not put in jail but at home is a major contributor the emptiness of our jails.

If people aren't in jail it doesn't mean there is no crime.

Many crimes are committed by other Europeans and Dutch criminals who commit crimes in Germany across the border. For instance ramming or exploding ATMs in Germany by Dutch organised crime happens a lot.

When looking at crime rates and amount of people in jail statistics per country are very unreliable and give the wrong impression when you should look at the big European picture.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#17
post #7

For reference: in 2016, the Dutch police only investigated 157 cases out of 50,000 cases of internet fraud. So it's not like we don't have any criminals, the police just doesn't do shit about it.

Frankly, investigating internet fraud seems like a fool's errand in most cases. I wonder what's the closing rate for those that do get investigated; probably minuscule.

Often they're reporting including bank account details. There is lots of simple to investigate fraud. Meaning: Dutch person using their own Dutch bank account to defraud people. That should be super simple to investigate.

On technical forums you sometimes see loads of people complaining that no action is being taken, despite pretty much giving police everything they need (all details: persons full name, bank account details, etc). It often takes place on e.g. Marktplaats (Dutch Ebay-like website).

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#18
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, the murder rate in 2015 was also the lowest in 20 years: http://nltimes.nl/2016/07/29/netherlands-murder-rate-20-year...

In loads of cases questionable deaths haven't been investigated on how they died. Meaning: lots of murders aren't being reported/seen as murder. Unfortunately do not have an article/reference for this, despite trying to find it.

What makes you think the percentage of questionable deaths has changed? If it hasn't, an all time low murder rate still stands.

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#19

Misleading article. I'm from the netherlands and a lot of police interviews report lack off financial support and manpower. Only criminals that get caught end up in jail.. Criminals who do not get caught are criminals nevertheless.. And they stil do criminal things. Correlation =/= Causation.

A found a reference for this:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/01/a-low-crime-ra...

"A confidential report by the police and public prosecution office states that official figures do not reflect the real volume of crime in the Netherlands,"

A more extensive Dutch article (referenced in above): http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/39681/nbsp/article/detail/4447567/...

Re: The Netherlands Closes Prisons Because It Doesn't Have Enough Prisoners

#20

There are a couple reasons why there are so little people in jail in the Netherlands and not all are positive. Crime reporting rate has never been lower. People have very little confidence that reporting a crime will lead to the criminal getting caught or even convicted. Many crimes are not solved. The crime solve rate is about 2-3% which means out of that small number of actual reported crimes only a marginal amount…

>>It's very common for judges to pass a community services punishment or an electronic ankle bracelet house arrest.But that's a good thing unless you consider sending people to the mines and keep them locked behind bars for years a better alternative.
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