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Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

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Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump issued an executive order (EO) temporarily suspending entry to the US for nationals of 7 countries listed by the DHS as "Countries of Concern", and temporarily suspending the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program. The State of Washington sued to block the EO. The lower court judge issued a temporary restraining order blocking the EO and Trump appealed. Now these 97 tech companies are sharing their opinion with the ap…

7* countries

Corrected, thank you.

Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#82

While I disagree with the travel ban, let's remember that the primary objection that the tech industry has to it is that it will disrupt the flow of cheap talent that it uses to boost its multi-billion dollar profits at the expense of US-educated engineers that would demand higher salaries and benefits. This group of companies may not garner much sympathy.

Quite a few of the companies on the list are among the highest payers in the USA.

Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#83
post #80
post #47

> If this approach were upheld, future orders might apply to any nation, and suddenly and unexpectedly bar its nationals from entering or returning to the United States. Aye, this is the crux of the matter, isn't it? I have a plane ticket from Canada to Europe in August, transiting in the USA and I have already contemplated changing my routing because who knows whether I will be admitted? Yes, the chances are heavily…

I really really wish the U.S. would implement some sort of transit facilities and regulations for airports. Needing a visa just to pass through without ever needing to leave a secure section of an airport is ridiculous and anachronistic.

I agree, the transit visa situation is really odd. I wonder how much money the U.S. loses by requiring visa from those travelling from Central+South America to Europe and the rest of the world. I know people personally that can't pick the quickest/cheapest route because it transits through the U.S.

Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#84
post #78

While I disagree with the travel ban, let's remember that the primary objection that the tech industry has to it is that it will disrupt the flow of cheap talent that it uses to boost its multi-billion dollar profits at the expense of US-educated engineers that would demand higher salaries and benefits. This group of companies may not garner much sympathy.

H1B salaries are public information, if you work at any of these companies it's trivial to check if your company is underpaying H1B holders and report them if that's the case.

Exactly, and they ARE.

Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#85

While I disagree with the travel ban, let's remember that the primary objection that the tech industry has to it is that it will disrupt the flow of cheap talent that it uses to boost its multi-billion dollar profits at the expense of US-educated engineers that would demand higher salaries and benefits. This group of companies may not garner much sympathy.

I don't know where you get your information, but at the kind of top-tier tech companies that are being discussed here, H1B employees are not getting inferior benefits.

And as someone that does a lot of hiring I can guarantee you that the interviewing costs, relocation costs, and language barrier trade-offs do not make up for any salary differences that may or may not occur.

We're not talking about some low-tech banks and telcos trying to save a few bux by outsourcing work to india.

These are companies that have a high enough bar for entry that they truly cannot hire by looking only locally and must consider the entire world.

Furthermore, your whole implication that the companies care about this from primarily a financial point of view is deeply cynical. Immigrants are heavily represented amongst the tech sector, and we have a deep faith in the success of western nations being directly tied to absorbing people hungry for a new life in a new world. It's not about screwing over people who are already here, it's about making the whole country better as a result.

CAVEAT: Am Canadian citizen, am first-generation immigrant. As mentioned, work for a multi-national tech company that is on this list, and hire from around the world. But I work with counterparts on the US side dealing with H1B and know they agree with me.

Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#86
post #64

Some notable American tech companies that didn't sign: - Tesla - SpaceX - Amazon - HP - IBM - Dell - Oracle - VMware - Palantir - Priceline - Expedia - Yahoo - Groupon - TripAdvisor - Symantec - Fiserv - Intuit There could be many reasons. Maybe they weren't invited to participate, maybe they choose to stay out of a political discussion, maybe they thought it could hurt their business interests, and maybe they didn't…

The first two are Elon Musk's companies and he's stated he wants to continue to try to influence Trump directly on this issue in particular: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/827924171661377536

Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to compare market caps to GDP because GDP is kind of like "aggregate value of everything produced this year" while a market cap is "estimated total profits for a company from now until the end of time." So you might have a company like Walmart with $200b in market cap but ~$500b in annual revenue (3% of GDP by itself!) and $15b in net income. On the other hand there are companies like Adobe with $60b market…

To be clear: it's not just hard, it is explicitly wrong . A more correct measure is a much simpler one: the aggregate product of all these companies over the GDP. Note that this aggregate product is of course a component of the GDP, so you can express this neatly as a percentage. I see only one major accounting complication in constructing this metric, and that's the inclusion/exclusion of foreign products and subsid…

Another way is to estimate the net present value of America's GDP by multiplying it by 20 or so, which implies that it's roughly 1% of American wealth.

Alternatively, percentage of rents at office and industrial zoned land would be a good measure. That'd separate out national vs international activity, at the cost of being significantly more difficult to estimate and calculate. I actually don't know how well rents and imputed rents are tracked at aggregate levels and broken down by company, so this may very well be data that we simply don't have access to.

Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about his statements on the crowd sizes? He also said Mexico was going to pay for the wall and that doesn't look like it will happen at all.

He said he will impose a tax on Mexican imports and use the proceeds to pay for the wall - That sounds on track.

Well, it's not making Mexicans pay for it, but Americans.

As for his other promises, I'm also not sure how he's going to manage to massively increase the defense forces while basically halving taxes.

Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#89

While I disagree with the travel ban, let's remember that the primary objection that the tech industry has to it is that it will disrupt the flow of cheap talent that it uses to boost its multi-billion dollar profits at the expense of US-educated engineers that would demand higher salaries and benefits. This group of companies may not garner much sympathy.

One of these is me: http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Twitter+Inc&job=Senior+Soft...

I am closer to the higher of the salaries listed. This does not include other kinds of compensation I'll be getting.

Let me know if you think I am being underpaid.

Re: Amicus brief on behalf of 97 tech companies

#90
post #64

Some notable American tech companies that didn't sign: - Tesla - SpaceX - Amazon - HP - IBM - Dell - Oracle - VMware - Palantir - Priceline - Expedia - Yahoo - Groupon - TripAdvisor - Symantec - Fiserv - Intuit There could be many reasons. Maybe they weren't invited to participate, maybe they choose to stay out of a political discussion, maybe they thought it could hurt their business interests, and maybe they didn't…

I suspect that Telsa, SpaceX and Palantir didn’t sign because Musk and Thiel wanted to talk to Trump in person, and possibly act as (informal) intermediaries.

Both have clearly stated they didn’t agree with most of Trump’s comments on the topic (without being crass or litigious) and can reasonably point at comments similar to yours to say that they are willing and encouraged to file a similar brief or join this one.

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