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What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

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Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#161

Post by shmerl »

wolfgke wrote: post #148
shmerl wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before you complain about that, consider that every GNU/Linux nerd has strong feelings about their preferred GNU/Linux distribution (or version (such as LTS, Stable, Bleeding Edge etc.). So they will probably not be satisfied with the distribution that is installed and install their preferred one Those who have such preferences, have zero problems installing their own distro. The fact that it doesn't come pre-insta…

> as long as they aren't forced to pay the nasty Windows tax. It is much simpler just not to ship any OS to customers that want to avoid the Microsoft tax (indeed some vendors sell PCs without any installed OS - in particular for enterprise customers; I also). This has the advantage that they don't have to provide support to customers that are using the installed GNU/Linux distribution. But note that avoiding the "Mi…

> it is much simpler just not to ship any OS to customers that want to avoid the Microsoft tax

Simpler yes, but it would undermine MS monopolistic control. That's why MS force manufacturers not to sell such computers. Their leverage is simple. If they would sell such, MS would raise the price of Windows for them. Most give in to blackmail.

See https://web.archive.org/web/20150714080353/http://www.justic...

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#162

Post by NeutronBoy »

mos_basik wrote: post #100
mmphosis wrote: post #77

Ubuntu eases the transition because I don't have to think (too much) about partitioning the disk. As a "user", I really don't want to ever see disk partitioning software, ever! Although, now I wish /home was in a separate partition -- why wasn't that the default? I continually trip over the Super key which brings up the Unity version of Spotlight. I killed Spotlight on my Mac a long time ago. I killed whatever Unity…

>now I wish /home was on a separate partition I feel you there. When I first started dipping my toes into Linux at age ~16, I remember the Ubuntu installer asking me all kinds of questions I didn't know the answer to, like "Would you like to repartition your disk?" "Would you like a logical partition or a physical partition?" "What disk would you like to install your bootloader on?" etc. I had no idea how to answer a…

> It wasn't until several years and versions of Ubuntu later that I decided I wanted to try a different distro and realized how convenient it would have been if I had put /home on its own partition.

It's a great idea in theory, but my /home is full of dotfile configs that belong to specific applications - which is great, I can take my configs with me! Except that not all distros have these in the same place. For a given app, some distros will have the config in ~, in ~/.config/, in /etc/, and so on.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#163

Post by [deleted] »

closeparen wrote: post #127
lumberjack wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't stop Android adoption.

Um, what? Phones differ in size and power, but a particular version of Android is a particular version of Android everywhere. Android developers don't have a debian vs. ubuntu vs. centos. vs. gentoo vs. arch type choice to make, only a "how backwards compatible do I want to be" choice.

[deleted]

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#164

Post by herbst »

bittercynic wrote: post #45
jstalin wrote: post #16

Office. If Linux desktop had microsoft office, I could use it. Libre office is an unmitigated, ugly pile of shit.

Libreoffice meets my needs just fine. I spend a couple of hours a week in their spreadsheet and word processor, and don't really have any complaints.

Same here. I am also happy they did not throw away the confusing but great working ui for that big icon bullshit. Using ms office is a very depressing eperience for me these days.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#165

Post by jlgaddis »

Kenji wrote: post #42
patrickaljord wrote: post #31

Nothing killed the Linux Desktop. Windows already won that war and it was good enough. Heck, even Apple and its billions couldn't get more than 5% market share worldwide. The next "war" moved to mobile and there linux is not doing that bad.

Windows solved many of the GUI problems 20 years ago that Linux still struggles with today. Windows was and is ahead and this is why it was and is more successful. It is that simple. I would take Windows 95's window manager over Ubuntu's Unity every day of the week.

fvwm95 is still around.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#166

Post by no_wizard »

appleiigs wrote: post #60
jstalin wrote: post #16

Office. If Linux desktop had microsoft office, I could use it. Libre office is an unmitigated, ugly pile of shit.

Yes, Office. Office compatibility still a problem for Macs in 2017. Either from FUD or in actual functionality, Office prevents people from switching from Win10 to MacOS. Two people asked me about moving to Macs. They repeatedly asked me about Office compatibility (the FUD). For one of the users, I wasn't sure if it was OK for functionality. She is a lawyer (ie. power user of Word) and I know in Mac Excel for me is n…

https://9to5mac.com/2016/01/21/windows-mac-ipad-microsoft-of...

With 2016, it ain't much. Do they use a lot of VB scripts? I have found 2016 Office for Mac has been nearly 1 for 1 feature wise.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#167

Post by hvasilev »

vectorpush wrote: post #87

Nothing killed the Linux desktop. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the fact that the masses only have two options: Windows or Mac. People become set in their ways using a particular system either at home or work and there is basically no reason that they will ever be exposed to a Linux desktop, and if they are, they will find it just as impossible to use as any other OS that isn't the one they've used excl…

Not really, CS students have usually been exposed to Linux at the university and very few of them still choose it as an operating system.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#168

Post by dfox »

digi_owl wrote: post #81
PaulHoule wrote: post #24

The original sin of the Linux desktop was the kde/gnome split over licensing. Had Linux had one good desktop, like the other operating systems, it could have had a future on the desktop. Instead it has had a number of almost-good desktops that are still fragmented by hate and the desire to thwart interoperability. For instance, the GTK team won't fix certain bugs that affect running in a rootless X server because the…

DEs are one thing, but the biggest issue was a split over programming interfaces. One that has yet to be rectified even with the efforts of Freedesktop (in large part "Hijacked" by Gnome, Icaza's creation in the DE schism). In the end the problem is likely the same as we are seeing on the web. People loves to code, not write specifications and sticking to them.

Another problem here is that unix DEs in general (and this includes even proprietary ones like CDE and 4Dwm) tended to solve problem that was cool in the mid 90's but then stopped to be relevant: having consistent cross-application object-oriented model for documents and preferably everything the user wants to manipulate. When you have multiple competing frameworks to implement this (and each KDE and Gnome went through at least one backward-incompatible reimplementation of this) you end up with applications that work only as part of the same framework. The whole OLE/COM/ActiveX on Windows is mechanism meant for exactly this and is used almost everywhere (Explorer window is COM component that displays COM components and the whole thing has exactly zero concept of files and directories).

This whole mechanism is in fact one great waste of time because the probably only meaningful user-facing application for this is embedding Excel charts in Word documents and in that case it is too generic and has some surprising behaviors that confuse users (I assume that what happens when you open document that has embedded OLE object for which there is no installed application has at least something to do with why Microsoft started selling Office instead of separate components) and can perfectly be implemented completely internally by the office suite, LibreOffice has internal system for this and nobody seems to care. One would assume that the useful use-case is more general, like "embedding picture-like things into Word documents", but I've never seen Word document that is actually useful and embeds something other than Excel chart or maybe worksheet, particularly I've never seen Visio diagram in Word document as an OLE object instead of image.

Currently KDE has it's KParts that are actually used in the implementation of KDE and KOffice, but Gnome seems to have completely dropped any such idea (which probably makes sense because their implementation that involved CORBA and could at least in theory work between X clients running on different physical computers was horribly over-engineered and probably was never used for anything that both worked reliably and was actually useful for end user).

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#169

Post by herbst »

protomyth wrote: post #160
herbst wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debian and later rpm. Most other distros will pick one of both and build a build process around it. Not perfect butnthe way it works.

What UI? [edit]Also, what type of process goes into converting a binary shipped by someone like Adobe? We are talking just changing the package format to install the binaries correctly, right?[/edit]

No change needed. Often the file structure just needs modification and dependencies need to be installed and fixed. AUR from arch is a good example for that. UI is not relevant most machines have qt and gtk

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#170

Post by herbst »

gens wrote: post #158
herbst wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly gnome shell is the greatest thing ever. My focus and productivity skyrocketet. I see how people who would prefer to run XP dont like it. But no reason to make it bad.

My productivity went up when i stopped arguing about DEs online. It is currently taking a dip, though.

I havent worked in a week. So best time to argue DEs :)
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