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What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

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Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#61
post #33
post #6

I think it was the inability for GUI's to stay stable. Gnome went off the rails, Unity completely ruined Ubuntu[1], and KDE always felt very cheap and hard to navigate. My opinion, yes, but I always felt the GUI changes in Linux were extremely gratuitous after Gnome 2. Couple this with the fact that for a decade, the actual GUI was tied very, very heavily to the apps. So you had to use Gedit in Gnome, or whatever the…

> I always felt the GUI changes in Linux were extremely gratuitous after Gnome 2. Yes! Ironically this was what a lot of people hated about Microsoft, and why the XP->Vista and 7->8->10 changes were so unpopular. Everything moves around and works in a different way, imposing a re-learning cost. But the developers like it because they're bored with the old system and think the new one is better.

It's no coincidence. Libre software devs saw what MS and Apple were doing and went "oh no we have to do the same to stay relevant!" Couple that with the rampant egos typical for an OSS project lead and you have today's situation. Of the big 3 (or is it 4 now) DEs, I feel KDE has stayed the most sane and provides the same desktop metaphors. Then again, they mostly bet on the "semantic desktop" direction, which was thankfully stillborn and didn't impact the actual GUI much.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#62
For anyone who skipped the comment section of the article, I found the following comment by "has" to be very insightful. Specifically the way that the community would rather divide its resources to keep multiple mediocre implementations of a given thing around than consolidate them, and how the Unix Philosophy has been ignored:

@Miguel: You are right about developer culture being a huge factor. Linux geeks all to often see the OS as the end in itself, whereas the rest of the world knows the OS is merely the means to an end. The OS is the least important component in the ecosystem: what actually matters is the applications and services they can use to get things done. Either it enables that or it obstructs it.

You also mentioned excessive fragmentation as being one of those obstructions. Now, I do believe the 'let a thousand flowers bloom' approach of the OSS world is valuable: where it completely falls down is in its abject failure to asset-strip the less successful variants for whatever merits they have unveiled, then put them wholesale to the sword. Evolution doesn't succeed by ideology or sentimentality; it works through merciless competition culling the weak so the strongest may dominate.

The best immediate remedy for Linux's desktop ills would be to put 80% of current DEs to the axe. Really you only need three mainstream distros: one to cover general users (Ubuntu; sorry Gnome 3), one to cover the inveterate tinkerers (KDE), and one to cover the reactionary conservatives (one of the Gnome 2 clones/derivatives). Retain a few specialised distros for niches such as very elderly/low-powered machines (hi, Pi!) and security work. Anything else is a research project to produce new ideas that can then be stolen by the mainstream distros, or just a leach on the body Linux that should be salted forthwith that the rest may grow stronger.

...

However, I think you completely missed one other valuable - and uncomfortable - point; arguably the most essential of them all.

While addressing the excessive dilution of manpower and message may help in the short term, there is a far more fundamental cultural problem: the Linux desktop world (and even the kernel world beneath it) has completely and utterly forgotten its roots. Unix Philosophy isn't merely a neat marketing phrase: it describes a very specific way to construct large, complex systems. Not by erecting vast imposing monoliths, ego-gratifying as that may be, but by assembling a rich ecosystem of small, simple, plug-n-play components that can be linked together in whatever arrangement best suits a given problem.

By mimicking the Apple and Microsoft tactic of constructing vast monolithic environments and applications, you have all unwittingly been playing to their strengths, not yours. Such enormous proprietary companies can afford such brute-force strategies because they have vast financial and manpower resources to draw on. Indeed, it works in their favour to do so because vast monolithic applications help to create user lock-in: look at Adobe Creative Suite; look at Microsoft Office. Nobody can truly compete with them because to assemble comparably featured applications takes at least a decade: until then, any competing applications are fewer featured and far more susceptible to being excluded by the vast user-side network effect that the big boys have formed around themselves.

Conversely, look at what has happened when the above vendors have tried to take a more component-oriented approach. For instance, Apple's attempt to implement OpenDoc failed not because it was fundamentally, fatally flawed at the technical level. (It may not have been perfect, but what is? It was still a good and promising platform in itself.) It failed because the business model it proposed - lots of small, cheap, single-purpose components from many vendors that users could purchase and mix-and-match however they liked - was utterly disruptive and utterly incompatible to the business model used by the very application vendors that Mac OS relied on to survive. Adobe's control of the market was predicated on it being the 800-pound gorilla in the room; it was never going to give that up by choice.

Whereas the Linux business model has no such requirements for maintaining artificial scarcity; indeed, given its far more limited development resources, it should be pouring every ounce of its strength into finding ways to work smart, not hard, like this. Unix Philosophy was a reaction to the inescapable hardware limitations of the day; now those limitations are no longer enforced, nix developers have gotten flabby and soft. They build these vast, inflexible edifices simply because they are not required to find a more ingeniously efficient way, and because as a short-term strategy diving straight in and copying how everyone else already does it is inevitably the easiest, laziest approach available. As a long-term strategy, however, it's an absolute disaster. Projects like Gnome and Open Office become like our banking industries: vast, baroque, impossible to regulate effectively, and cripplingly expensive to maintain.

The result is: vast projects that are far too big to fail. The thought of axing, say, Gnome 3 - not on technical merit but simply because it consumes too much resource from Linux as a whole - becomes unthinkable. So rather than killing it and folding its best bits into other, fewer distros, even more manpower must be poured into keeping it going and looking like it actually serves a critical purpose instead of acting as yet another boat anchor on the whole show. Manpower that should've been invested in finding ingenious ways to play to Linux/Unix's unique strengths, not to its competition's.

Apple didn't go from virtually dead husk to #1 in the whole damned industry by continuing to play Microsoft's game by Microsoft's rules. It did it by looking at what MS and all its other competitors weren't* doing, or weren't doing well, in order to meet consumers wants and needs, then devising a cunning plan to do a complete end-run around the lot of them: redefining the entire game to suit their own strengths and allow them to define their own rules. Even if it meant burning their own traditional platform to get there. It was an absolute masterstroke, and a prime reminder that if you want to understand how this game is really played, you don't read Slashdot, you read Sun Tzu.

...

TL;DR: Windows didn't kill the Linux desktop and neither did OS X. The Linux desktop killed itself, by playing on their terms instead of its own. The best thing it can do now - once denial and recrimination are done with - is turn the killing process itself into a virtue, and slice not only the DE/application mess but also the cultural one right back down to the bone and start rebuilding from there.

Good luck, and apologies for length.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#63
post #7

Quote from article: "The attitude of our community was one of engineering excellence: we do not want deprecated code in our source trees, we do not want to keep broken designs around, we want pure and beautiful designs and we want to eliminate all traces of bad or poorly implemented ideas from our source code trees. And we did. We deprecated APIs, because there was a better way." The Linux kernel only removes/changes…

The linux kernel is hard-core into not breaking backwards compatibility. 2/3 of Linus's rants targeting a kernel developer tend to be because they broke userspace.

On the other hand, there is approximately zero chance that a dynamically linked executable from 10 years ago will run on my current system because the system libraries break backwards compatibility all the time. Drepper takes a lot of flak for this, but glibc is not even remotely the only library at fault for this.

Many core userspace libraries broke not only binary compatibility regularly but often source compatibility. Inspect a steam install sometime. It installs dozens of DLLs just so games will have a stable base to work from.

Also, have I just gotten lucky or something? This is the second time that someone mentions audio not working on linux as the norm, but from the mainlining of ALSA in 2.6 on, I've had zero issues with audio working for all but the most obscure audio devices.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#64
post #16

Office. If Linux desktop had microsoft office, I could use it. Libre office is an unmitigated, ugly pile of shit.

Libreoffice meets my needs just fine. I spend a couple of hours a week in their spreadsheet and word processor, and don't really have any complaints.

Agree. Libreoffice works quite well, and although their presentation software isn't as pretty as powerpoint, I actually prefer their slideshow mode on multiple monitors. Quite sexy, in fact.

There's no reason for any government office or public school system at any level to be paying for office licenses IMHO. We can communicate and teach quite well with L.O.- and donate a share of the saved budget to FOSS.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#65
The Linux Desktop didn't die, because you simply can't kill something that never had life to begin with. Linux (as in the kernel) succeeds because it's free, flexible, stable and secure. But none of those words are "pretty", "aesthetic" or "powerful". And the DEs associated with Linux reflect this in every nature. OSX became the uber tech junkie's OS of choice, but with Apple's recent shenanigans these savvy enthusiasts and devs are also starting to use Windows again. And in the end it doesn't matter, the internet has taken over the desktop OS anyway.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#66

The original sin of the Linux desktop was the kde/gnome split over licensing. Had Linux had one good desktop, like the other operating systems, it could have had a future on the desktop. Instead it has had a number of almost-good desktops that are still fragmented by hate and the desire to thwart interoperability. For instance, the GTK team won't fix certain bugs that affect running in a rootless X server because the…

And that was mainly the job of the author of this article.

Who is currently working for Microsoft.

I smell an agenda here.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#67

The people I know who use desktop Linux love their Linux rigs a whole lot more than my Windows and Mac acquaintances enjoy their computers--which in many cases just borders on tolerance, especially with Windows 10. Maybe software needs something beyond market share, sort of like what Bhutan did with Gross National Happiness. We'll rank products based on how much people enjoy them and then see who's the dominant deskt…

That's because it takes more work and knowledge to get a Linux machine running smoothly, so in the end you feel a sense of accomplishment, when in the end all that was done was just getting a local desktop OS running the way a computer should be used in the first place. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#69
post #16

Office. If Linux desktop had microsoft office, I could use it. Libre office is an unmitigated, ugly pile of shit.

True. And I do agree about Libre office, first thing I uninstall on Ubuntu.

But you can try and use WPS office. It's made by some Chinese company, it's fast and it is compatible with Office files.

I had one of my Linux epiphanies with WPS. I got a Powerpoint presentation by email, I plugged the videobeam HDMI adapter to my laptop, pressed the Fn-F8 keys to change from mirroring to using two separate displays, opened the Powerpoint file with WPS presentations and it worked beautifully.

The presentation was fullscreen in the external display, and I had the notes in the laptop. The presentation was flawless.

I had never had any other software work without issues for me at the very first try and I was very happy that it happened while running Linux.

Re: What Killed the Linux Desktop (2012)

#70
I think one of the problems is that there's no centralized leadership from an encompassing GUI perspective. It's tribal. The kernel and RMS contributions of course has centralized leadership and are much more successful and coherent.
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