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FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

theintercept.com

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Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#141

Post by hueving »

llukas wrote: post #104
DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

Shrink the state = let rich & corporations get loose. You want to replace kind of power that you got influence on and some expectations about public information access with totally "private" power that you got no control about. That is special kind of stupid. Thank you but no thank you.

>That is special kind of stupid.

Very thoughtful and well reasoned. Take that trash elsewhere.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#142

Post by java_script »

RA_Fisher wrote: post #131
DictumExNihilo wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let rich & corporations get loose This belief only causes the state to grow. It inflates politicians to the point where they are worth buying, so they are bought. They then make laws that hurt their competition and help their corporation. They make laws that make it extremely difficult to ever start a business to compete to begin with. So the corporations get bigger, and have more to buy the politicians with. And t…

I'm with ya, friend. For those curious to read more, I suggest the Mises Institute: https://www.mises.org/

Was curious indeed; did some googling. Libertarianism is hilarious: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises_Institute#Grea...

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#143

Post by strken »

llukas wrote: post #104
DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

Shrink the state = let rich & corporations get loose. You want to replace kind of power that you got influence on and some expectations about public information access with totally "private" power that you got no control about. That is special kind of stupid. Thank you but no thank you.

It's not clear that making the state smaller makes it any less powerful, or any less able to protect the poor. You could replace all the existing welfare programs with a redistributive tax on capital, and still technically have shrunk the state if there were fewer regulations and fewer government employees afterwards.

One of the most important insights that YC and friends have given me is that a massive heavyweight isn't necessarily better than a small and nimble competitor.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#144

Post by CardenB »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #100

If this kind of crap actually becomes popular I give it 10yr before people realize that police arrest tons of people for tons of things and a disturbingly large amount if it is just them "mildly" abusing their power and whatever it is eventually gets dropped. This will be especially true when all the (rich, white) college kids who's only brush with the law is being in the wrong place at the wrong time start hitting t…

This would be a likely outcome if used as you describe. However a big danger is using it to convince minorities/immigrants who haven't done anything actually wrong.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#145

Post by kalkin »

coderdude wrote: post #127
pyre wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every protester is doing that though. If you go to a peaceful protest that turns into a riot, you may be arrested even if you did not commit any acts of vandalism or violence. Basically just because you were there. Is this the world you want to live in?

I've watched a lot of these protests-turned-riot and you don't see innocent people on the sidelines being hauled away. You hardly see any of the violent and destructive agitators being hauled away. I don't think the scenario you're describing is realistic whatsoever.

You've watched a lot of them, but you've never seen or heard of "kettling"? Odd. I have seen it and experienced it.

(I'm also curious what instances of protests-turned-riot you're referring to. The US hasn't had many riots, in any meaningful sense, recently. Do you mean someone smashing a window?)

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#146

Post by hueving »

kalkin wrote: post #139
DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

Getting rid of social security or making our healthcare system even worse won't do anything to shrink the FBI. A stronger welfare state is compatible with considerably less out-of-control police than we have in the United States; witness anywhere in northern Europe. If you don't want people to laugh at your principles, maybe don't immediately turn a conversation about the security state to an argument that you should…

>stronger welfare state is compatible with considerably less out-of-control police than we have in the United States; witness anywhere in northern Europe.

Or Cuba or Venezuela?

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#147

Post by iak8god »

leereeves wrote: post #101
iak8god wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi. I just went off and read In Defense of Looting [1], which I'd never seen before, following its mention in your earlier post. It's fascinating. I think you should read it. It presents a very interesting perspective that many might not be familiar with and, despite the title, is not primarily a defense of looting. Isn't this an interesting idea worth thinking about? "Looting is extremely dangerous to the rich (and…

I've read it a few times. "It is in solidarity with these latter protesters–along with those who loot–and against politicians and de-escalators everywhere that I offer this critique" As someone who would like to see de-escalation before this all ends in civil war, the author has declared (correctly, I think) themselves against me. It is, more than a mere defense of looting, an attack on capitalism and "white supremac…

> It is, more than a mere defense of looting, an attack on capitalism and "white supremacy" (by which the author means American society in general, not extremist Neo-Nazis).

Right. Those are some of the reasons it's plausible that someone would recommend it with a more complex intention than "yay, looting."

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#148

Post by acdha »

ams6110 wrote: post #117
llukas wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shrink the state = let rich & corporations get loose. You want to replace kind of power that you got influence on and some expectations about public information access with totally "private" power that you got no control about. That is special kind of stupid. Thank you but no thank you.

The state is bigger than it's ever been. Meanwhile wealth inequality has risen to historic highs. How's that again?

Citation needed: it's definitely not more invasive than when we had e.g. actual royalty or state-enforced slavery, to say nothing of the various authoritarian regimes of the 20th century, in the U.S. at least taxes are generally lower than they were decades ago and federal employment has been flat to declining for at least half a century.

This is also a meaningless claim without looking at life for the average person: was it really better when the state let your house run a company town, pollute around your home, punish you for disagreeing in public, etc?

What you should be looking at is quality of life and personal freedom. Assuming the quality of government is fixed is a classic libertarian cognitive vice, and its prevalence does a lot to keep adherents marginalized.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#149

Post by CalChris »

zarriak wrote: post #124
CPLX wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. And what group is that exactly? It sure as hell isn't either of the two major US parties and their assorted enablers.

Ron Paul has been arguing for this for his entire political career.

As a Republican and now very comfortably retired Critter.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#150

Post by rdtsc »

RhodaLs wrote: post #125
rdtsc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The message here is clear: Don't protest or you might lose your job. I think the real message is even more troubling. "Don't protest because it probably won't do anything". Since the late 60's when did protests work as a an effective tactic in US? We've had anti-war protests for Iraq and Afghanistan. We've had Occupy Wall Street, we've had protests against Trump. Have they advanced the cause? I am afraid not. I thi…

I'd strongly disagree. Occupy didn't result in direct action or changes. However, it popularized the notion of the One Percent vs. Ninety-Nine Percent, and got people to think about class in a nation very averse to even acknowledging the existence of economic classes. Probably had a positive impact in terms of helping Obama get re-elected, since Obama was lucky enough to get a seemingly clueless one-percenter as an o…

> Occupy didn't result in direct action or changes.

That was my point. It had as goals to limit the influence of corporations on politics, more balanced distribution of income, more and better jobs, bank reforms.

I can see maybe the secondary effects of electing Obama, so agree with that. Interestingly did Obama do much in regard to those issues. There was student dept forgiveness thing, that might be a claim. ACA might be another one. But what about others...can't think of any right off the bat.

> The sheer size of the crowds at the first protest, the Women's March, has had a galvanizing effect.

It was a beautiful thing indeed. It was nice to see others and have that solidarity. If it gets people more involved politically that's even better.

> I think it's arguable the anti-LGBT executive order was scrapped at the last minute because of the sheer size of the instant protests over the immigration ban.

I am behind on my news, what was that anti-LGBT executive order? This is the first time I heard about it.

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