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Facebook is terrifying

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Re: Facebook is terrifying

#51

Post by zo7 »

jraines wrote: post #39
mmjaa wrote: post #35

Its not just faces .. me and a friend had a little jam session recently and posted a picture of our cool little setup, consisting of a few pocket-sized machines (synthesizers and controllers) on our table in front of us. Just an innocent little picture of our jam setup. Within seconds of posting this picture of the machines, my friend was getting targeted ads from the manufacturers of those devices - within seconds!…

For the sake of discussion, why is that scary rather than kind of nice? Unless you take the AdBlock route, aren't well targeted ads better than irrelevant ones?

It's scary because the system learned something about you automatically from an innocuous photo and told others about it, all without a human in the loop. Ads are pretty harmless, but you can imagine what might happen in a surveillance system or if a more malicious actor was behind the system.

Re: Facebook is terrifying

#52

Post by pmoriarty »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #41
Kiro wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but even if the next Hitler would get all my Facebook data I still don't care personally. Am I naive? I do understand why people have a problem with it though.

> Not OP but even if the next Hitler would get all my Facebook data I still don't care personally. Am I naive? Do you have Jewish ancestry? Of course the next "Hitler" probably won't be after Jews. Next time it would be Muslims or immigrants or Stalinist purges of anyone who disagrees with the administration. You don't know today what opinions would get you put on a list tomorrow. And if you've never said anything th…

Just a little more on this subject:

Good luck proving you're not one of the targeted groups to someone in power who's not interested in your proof.

Re: Facebook is terrifying

#53

Post by lutusp »

bastawhiz wrote: post #36

What is the proposed recourse? Ban Facebook from analyzing data that users give it? I use Facebook's automatic tagging because I find it useful. Should it be illegal for me to use this feature because someone might unintentionally be identified in a photo that I took? Is the argument that Facebook--or any other company--should never be allowed to develop software that could process data that could identify folks, eve…

> What is the proposed recourse? Ban Facebook from analyzing data that users give it?

I think the answer's obvious -- replace Facebook with an entity, hypothetical at present, that's controlled by its users, not a corporate board of directors whose loyalty is to themselves and to stockholders, people for whom subscribers are a product being offered up for sale.

I'm obviously speaking hypothetically -- there's essentially zero chance for such a thing, given the modern Internet and the current political environment.

> If I can legally take a photo, should I not have the right to have a company analyze that photo on my behalf?

The unasked question is whether the analysis is carried out on your behalf.

Re: Facebook is terrifying

#54

Post by walterstucco »

Kiro wrote: post #30
jitbit wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That age old "I have nothing to hide" argument. AKA "they're nice people, what could go wrong". This is not the point. The point is: Information in the wrong hands can become dangerous , period. People change. Companies change. You have no guarantee Facebook will preserve the vision they have right now. You have no guarantee their new CEO won't have a different opinion... (wont be a "Trump"). Also you have to realize…

Not OP but even if the next Hitler would get all my Facebook data I still don't care personally. Am I naive? I do understand why people have a problem with it though.

Yes, you are.

Re: Facebook is terrifying

#55

Post by toyg »

jraines wrote: post #39
mmjaa wrote: post #35

Its not just faces .. me and a friend had a little jam session recently and posted a picture of our cool little setup, consisting of a few pocket-sized machines (synthesizers and controllers) on our table in front of us. Just an innocent little picture of our jam setup. Within seconds of posting this picture of the machines, my friend was getting targeted ads from the manufacturers of those devices - within seconds!…

For the sake of discussion, why is that scary rather than kind of nice? Unless you take the AdBlock route, aren't well targeted ads better than irrelevant ones?

That's my wife's position, and IMHO it's a wrong one. It's the same argument about letting them store your search history: everything about you ends up in a database that someone can look up whenever s/he wants. Where you shop, where you eat, where you go on holiday, all about your family and friends, what you like, your health... it's a treasure trove for all sort of nefarious activities that could target you, from ID theft to fraud, framing, entrapment, you name it. But of course it will never happen to you, right?

Re: Facebook is terrifying

#56

Post by tajen »

jraines wrote: post #39
mmjaa wrote: post #35

Its not just faces .. me and a friend had a little jam session recently and posted a picture of our cool little setup, consisting of a few pocket-sized machines (synthesizers and controllers) on our table in front of us. Just an innocent little picture of our jam setup. Within seconds of posting this picture of the machines, my friend was getting targeted ads from the manufacturers of those devices - within seconds!…

For the sake of discussion, why is that scary rather than kind of nice? Unless you take the AdBlock route, aren't well targeted ads better than irrelevant ones?

Because he also looks terrible on the photo and he immediately received ads for MacDonalds jobs within minutes of posting this picture. His insurance also resigned his health policy after a system recognized him as a drunkard.

Re: Facebook is terrifying

#57

Post by hacker_9 »

bastawhiz wrote: post #36

What is the proposed recourse? Ban Facebook from analyzing data that users give it? I use Facebook's automatic tagging because I find it useful. Should it be illegal for me to use this feature because someone might unintentionally be identified in a photo that I took? Is the argument that Facebook--or any other company--should never be allowed to develop software that could process data that could identify folks, eve…

I will never disagree with advancing software, because at the end of the day if we don't, someone else will. But I do disagree with companies taking advantage of the laws. There is no privacy law at the moment that bans Facebook from seeing you in someone else's picture and locating where you were, and targeting ads at you based on that information. But it is common decency to have some respect, and discard that information. This is where the capitalist mindset takes over and makes companies think this behavior is ok.

Re: Facebook is terrifying

#58

Post by stymaar »

jraines wrote: post #39
mmjaa wrote: post #35

Its not just faces .. me and a friend had a little jam session recently and posted a picture of our cool little setup, consisting of a few pocket-sized machines (synthesizers and controllers) on our table in front of us. Just an innocent little picture of our jam setup. Within seconds of posting this picture of the machines, my friend was getting targeted ads from the manufacturers of those devices - within seconds!…

For the sake of discussion, why is that scary rather than kind of nice? Unless you take the AdBlock route, aren't well targeted ads better than irrelevant ones?

Realizing that the sentence «big brother is watching you» accurately describes the world de live in ils kind of scary…

It's something to rationaly know it, it's totally different to experience it in real life !

Re: Facebook is terrifying

#59

Post by lutusp »

pmoriarty wrote: post #52
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not OP but even if the next Hitler would get all my Facebook data I still don't care personally. Am I naive? Do you have Jewish ancestry? Of course the next "Hitler" probably won't be after Jews. Next time it would be Muslims or immigrants or Stalinist purges of anyone who disagrees with the administration. You don't know today what opinions would get you put on a list tomorrow. And if you've never said anything th…

Just a little more on this subject: Good luck proving you're not one of the targeted groups to someone in power who's not interested in your proof.

The problem isn't a system in which Jews or Muslims or Armenians are targeted for discrimination. The problem is a system with the power and legal authority to target any group whatsoever.

Re: Facebook is terrifying

#60

Post by aeturnum »

I agree with the jitbit that we should consider the impacts of the growing global facial recognition system, but I find the focus on Facebook puzzling.

Facebook is one of the companies that seems like the best keepers of this data. They are committed to keeping their data private - because that's how they make money. They make much more though building accurate profiles and selling ads to demographics than giving away the goose.

A state actor can demand access to Facebook's database - just like they can demand access to anyone else's.

I think Facebook is a fairly mundane company using a terrifying new technology in distinctly benign ways. They've given us a glimpse of the power of the tech while not obviously abusing it. On balance, I'm pretty happy about that.

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