You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#21

Post by tormeh » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 4:33 PM UTC

naranana wrote: post #17

chriswarbo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if you want a bad laptop" is insulting for two reasons: - Nobody "wants" a bad laptop, since that contradicts the definition of badness. A more accurate, less insulting phrasing would be "if you can put up with a bad laptop", i.e. there's an associated cost which you may or may not consider worth it. - The laptop's clearly not "bad" in some objective sense, since nobody would have put in the effort if it were. It's…

>The laptop's clearly not "bad" in some objective sense 11.6 inch, 1366 x 768 pixel display, an Allwinner A64 ARM Cortex-A53 quad-core processor with Mali-400MP2 graphics, 1GB of RAM, 4GB of eMMC storage Everything about that is objectively bad. Those are the regular specs any piece of consumer hardware would have over ten years ago. I'm sure an ancient Pentium 4 would simply crush that processor. >It's probably subj…

Stallman?

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#22

Post by Nomentatus » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 4:36 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #19

To me, the biggest impediment to the open laptop is people have been conditioned to complain about size and weight beyond the point where it is likely to matter for their use case. Sure there are use cases where the difference in mass and bulk between a Thinkpad X1 and something the size of a Thinkpad P effect utility. Much of the time they don't. Laptops have evolved a lot since my first laptop...a used ex corporate…

Unless you enjoy walking or walk to stay healthy. Then two pounds more or less matter. A lot. For your health, go light, and take fewer taxis.

I know what some of you are thinking: "carrying extra weight will be even healthier" - but also unpleasant enough that you won't actually walk much if you weigh yourself down that much.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#23

Post by cguess » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #19

To me, the biggest impediment to the open laptop is people have been conditioned to complain about size and weight beyond the point where it is likely to matter for their use case. Sure there are use cases where the difference in mass and bulk between a Thinkpad X1 and something the size of a Thinkpad P effect utility. Much of the time they don't. Laptops have evolved a lot since my first laptop...a used ex corporate…

You don't spend a lot of time traveling do you? I upgraded my Macbook about a year ago, and shaving off those 1.5 or 2 pounds saved my back so much. When you're moving cities every few days, walking through massive airports and hiking windy side streets to find the hotel your colleague booked that was "right on the main drag" but is actually 200m up the hill you learn to really love even that little extra weight being gone.

The extra space in a bag when you're completely carry on is a huge benefit as well since everything fits under the seat in front of you a bit easier, so you can board faster and sit down quicker.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#24

Post by detaro » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #19

To me, the biggest impediment to the open laptop is people have been conditioned to complain about size and weight beyond the point where it is likely to matter for their use case. Sure there are use cases where the difference in mass and bulk between a Thinkpad X1 and something the size of a Thinkpad P effect utility. Much of the time they don't. Laptops have evolved a lot since my first laptop...a used ex corporate…

Most attempts I've seen have been on the very small size (netbook-like), so there should be room up from there? Given how many "traditionally shaped" laptops are still sold I'm not sure the demand for lighter and thinner actually affects attempts at open-source ones, especially since initial adopters are going to be compromising anyways.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#25

Post by kmichaels » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

kogepathic wrote: post #20

kmichaels wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the options you suggest have an open PCB layout/schematic (which this does in Kicad). Not only is this philosophically "good" it also has practical benefits if you are looking to build on the design to say, integrate an fpga.

> it also has practical benefits if you are looking to build on the design to say, integrate an fpga. Okay, what prevents me from designing my own PCB to replace the one in my phone? I can measure the physical dimensions, look up the datasheet for the LCD screen and camera connector and get a new board made. Since this isn't very practical, no one does it. It's going to cost far more than any reasonable person would…

I think, these are just argument why this isn't a good fit for you.

However it's not really a good argument that this is a bad thing in every use case. Calling this a "bad" laptop when the only other laptop that's open to this degree that I'm aware of is bunnie's novena seems a bit silly.

Building on an established design is going to be far easier than bringing up a new PCB. I'd estimate you could get prototypes of this board (6 layer) made for If I needed embedded compute, for an instrument I was designing for low volume manufacture I'd consider these boards. If nothing else, I could probably get them fabbed myself if necessary/desirable.

I can see many use cases like this. As well as the fact that some users just philosophically prefer computers whose design is as open as possible.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#26

Post by kmichaels » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

naranana wrote: post #17

chriswarbo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if you want a bad laptop" is insulting for two reasons: - Nobody "wants" a bad laptop, since that contradicts the definition of badness. A more accurate, less insulting phrasing would be "if you can put up with a bad laptop", i.e. there's an associated cost which you may or may not consider worth it. - The laptop's clearly not "bad" in some objective sense, since nobody would have put in the effort if it were. It's…

>The laptop's clearly not "bad" in some objective sense 11.6 inch, 1366 x 768 pixel display, an Allwinner A64 ARM Cortex-A53 quad-core processor with Mali-400MP2 graphics, 1GB of RAM, 4GB of eMMC storage Everything about that is objectively bad. Those are the regular specs any piece of consumer hardware would have over ten years ago. I'm sure an ancient Pentium 4 would simply crush that processor. >It's probably subj…

So fundamentally what the author is saying is that this laptop is bad is a way that it was never meant to be good. And that's what makes the title click bait because the author is clearly aware of this.

Clearly it was never meant to be as good as a MacBook Pro.

It was meant to be good as an open source laptop (which it is, as one of the few open laptop designs that exists).

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#27

Post by brudgers » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:11 PM UTC

cguess wrote: post #23

brudgers wrote: post #19

To me, the biggest impediment to the open laptop is people have been conditioned to complain about size and weight beyond the point where it is likely to matter for their use case. Sure there are use cases where the difference in mass and bulk between a Thinkpad X1 and something the size of a Thinkpad P effect utility. Much of the time they don't. Laptops have evolved a lot since my first laptop...a used ex corporate…

You don't spend a lot of time traveling do you? I upgraded my Macbook about a year ago, and shaving off those 1.5 or 2 pounds saved my back so much. When you're moving cities every few days, walking through massive airports and hiking windy side streets to find the hotel your colleague booked that was "right on the main drag" but is actually 200m up the hill you learn to really love even that little extra weight bein…

Most people don't spend a lot of time traveling. Some people do. There are different use cases. I spend a fair amount of time processing images. My laptop has 1.7 teraflops and 4GB of Quadro GPU. It's also not a typical use case. That's the difference between a ThinkPad X1 and a Thinkpad P.

As I mentioned, in the early 1990's the magically light laptop for Simpsoning through airports was 6+ pounds and 2" thick. What's changed besides raw compute is expectations not physiology.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#28

Post by brudgers » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:22 PM UTC

detaro wrote: post #24

brudgers wrote: post #19

To me, the biggest impediment to the open laptop is people have been conditioned to complain about size and weight beyond the point where it is likely to matter for their use case. Sure there are use cases where the difference in mass and bulk between a Thinkpad X1 and something the size of a Thinkpad P effect utility. Much of the time they don't. Laptops have evolved a lot since my first laptop...a used ex corporate…

Most attempts I've seen have been on the very small size (netbook-like), so there should be room up from there? Given how many "traditionally shaped" laptops are still sold I'm not sure the demand for lighter and thinner actually affects attempts at open-source ones, especially since initial adopters are going to be compromising anyways.

Part of the critique in the article was form factor mass and bulk (compute was the other part). The standard for the critique was rooted more in how laptops are marketed than in human physiology.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#29

Post by coldtea » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:53 PM UTC

new299 wrote: post #2

Title is basically click bait, and reasonably insulting. The laptop is "bad" by some metrics (build quality/speed) and better by others (open hardware/software/hackability).

>and better by others (open hardware/software/hackability).

Are those metrics people actually care about in a laptop?

And even if they are, this would still be a bad laptop by laptop-y metrics.

You can have both good and open, this just ain't it.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#30

Post by coldtea » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

shakna wrote: post #16

user5994461 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headlines are not insulting, you're taking discussion about open-source too personally.

> ... want a bad laptop > ... disappoint you... These are headlines that have a definite negative slant. They aren't something to foster discussion, but something that tugs on the emotions of the reader. That's a sure fire tactic for pissing people off.

>These are headlines that have a definite negative slant.

But also definite true one. Wine has always been short of the promise it made (except for specific, select, apps), and the laptop is bad on any metric that matters except the "I can update it to make it have a less bad processor when that becomes available for it".