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You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

theverge.com

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Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#11

Post by j3097736 »

kogepathic wrote: post #3
new299 wrote: post #2

Title is basically click bait, and reasonably insulting. The laptop is "bad" by some metrics (build quality/speed) and better by others (open hardware/software/hackability).

I don't necessarily agree. Look at Android phones now. Midrange phones come with more RAM, a comparable or better screen resolution (in 5"), and frequently offer dual band WiFi. [0] Sure, you can't upgrade anything on the phone and you're lucky if even the kernel source code is released. But the Allwinner A64 chip Olimex is using has crap support in Linux anyway: you won't have hardware accelerated 2D or 3D. And plea…

>So the only "upgrade" path is to replace the entire PCB.

Except that it's not a tightly coupled design so there's enough space to add more boards.

Somebody that only want to play with gadgets shouldn't review something he has no understanding of.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#13

Post by chriswarbo »

tdkl wrote: post #4
new299 wrote: post #2

Title is basically click bait, and reasonably insulting. The laptop is "bad" by some metrics (build quality/speed) and better by others (open hardware/software/hackability).

Insulting how ? First metrics you mentioned are measurable, 2nd base on philosophy. I can try to convince a rock to split itself with any attitude I believe in, but I'll still be more effective with a hammer.

"if you want a bad laptop" is insulting for two reasons:

- Nobody "wants" a bad laptop, since that contradicts the definition of badness. A more accurate, less insulting phrasing would be "if you can put up with a bad laptop", i.e. there's an associated cost which you may or may not consider worth it.

- The laptop's clearly not "bad" in some objective sense, since nobody would have put in the effort if it were. It's probably subjectively bad to many people, in which case it's clearly not meant for them, but that's a property of the person (or person/laptop relation) rather than of the laptop.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#14

Post by user5994461 »

jlgaddis wrote: post #5
new299 wrote: post #2

Title is basically click bait, and reasonably insulting. The laptop is "bad" by some metrics (build quality/speed) and better by others (open hardware/software/hackability).

After reading the title -- before even looking at the domain the link pointed to -- I knew this had to be an article on The Verge. I'm not sure what's going on over there but it seems that maybe they're A/B testing with these insulting headlines or something. I thought this recent headline in particular was quite insulting: "Wine 2.0 is out, ready to disappoint you once again" [0] edit: Just noticed both articles are…

The headlines are not insulting, you're taking discussion about open-source too personally.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#15

Post by chriswarbo »

photologbook wrote: post #12

Second hand Laptops and notepads cheap now anyway, £60 or less for second hand notepad and around £100 maybe less for Laptop

How does that have any relation to being open source? I'm currently using a second-hand laptop, but I specifically paid more for it because it is "Respects Your Freedom" certified (from https://minifree.org )

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#16

Post by shakna »

user5994461 wrote: post #14
jlgaddis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading the title -- before even looking at the domain the link pointed to -- I knew this had to be an article on The Verge. I'm not sure what's going on over there but it seems that maybe they're A/B testing with these insulting headlines or something. I thought this recent headline in particular was quite insulting: "Wine 2.0 is out, ready to disappoint you once again" [0] edit: Just noticed both articles are…

The headlines are not insulting, you're taking discussion about open-source too personally.

> ... want a bad laptop

> ... disappoint you...

These are headlines that have a definite negative slant.

They aren't something to foster discussion, but something that tugs on the emotions of the reader.

That's a sure fire tactic for pissing people off.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#17

Post by naranana »

chriswarbo wrote: post #13
tdkl wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insulting how ? First metrics you mentioned are measurable, 2nd base on philosophy. I can try to convince a rock to split itself with any attitude I believe in, but I'll still be more effective with a hammer.

"if you want a bad laptop" is insulting for two reasons: - Nobody "wants" a bad laptop, since that contradicts the definition of badness. A more accurate, less insulting phrasing would be "if you can put up with a bad laptop", i.e. there's an associated cost which you may or may not consider worth it. - The laptop's clearly not "bad" in some objective sense, since nobody would have put in the effort if it were. It's…

>The laptop's clearly not "bad" in some objective sense

11.6 inch, 1366 x 768 pixel display, an Allwinner A64 ARM Cortex-A53 quad-core processor with Mali-400MP2 graphics, 1GB of RAM, 4GB of eMMC storage

Everything about that is objectively bad. Those are the regular specs any piece of consumer hardware would have over ten years ago. I'm sure an ancient Pentium 4 would simply crush that processor.

>It's probably subjectively bad to many people, in which case it's clearly not meant for them

What kind of a public would this laptop have? With those specs you can barely run a web browser.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#18

Post by naranana »

new299 wrote: post #2

Title is basically click bait, and reasonably insulting. The laptop is "bad" by some metrics (build quality/speed) and better by others (open hardware/software/hackability).

>open hardware/software/hackability

It's an Allwinner SoC. I doubt there's anything open about it, they probably won't even give you the GPL'd code you need to run it.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#19

Post by brudgers »

To me, the biggest impediment to the open laptop is people have been conditioned to complain about size and weight beyond the point where it is likely to matter for their use case. Sure there are use cases where the difference in mass and bulk between a Thinkpad X1 and something the size of a Thinkpad P effect utility. Much of the time they don't.

Laptops have evolved a lot since my first laptop...a used ex corporate travelling salesman's Toshiba Satellite with a 386SX. At about seven pounds and two inches thick, it was still somewhat svelte by current laptop standards when I obtained in 1997. In 2001 when I purchased my first laptop, a $1000 would get you about the same...and that was the cheapest laptop you could buy and only if it was on sale. For another grand and a half or two you could knock about a pound and a half off the weight...yes three grand for a four and a half pound laptop. Laptops have evolved quite a bit since then.

But humans and the physical environment have not. Sure, side by side, it's easy to experience the phyiscal differences between a six pound box of electronics and a three pound box of electronics and to imagine how much happier the smaller box will make you. And that's most of the reason for smaller and lighter laptops, someone standing in the store imagining how much happier they'll be and opening their wallet a little wider.

Re: You can build a laptop out of open source components if you want a bad laptop

#20

Post by kogepathic »

kmichaels wrote: post #6
kogepathic wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily agree. Look at Android phones now. Midrange phones come with more RAM, a comparable or better screen resolution (in 5"), and frequently offer dual band WiFi. [0] Sure, you can't upgrade anything on the phone and you're lucky if even the kernel source code is released. But the Allwinner A64 chip Olimex is using has crap support in Linux anyway: you won't have hardware accelerated 2D or 3D. And plea…

None of the options you suggest have an open PCB layout/schematic (which this does in Kicad). Not only is this philosophically "good" it also has practical benefits if you are looking to build on the design to say, integrate an fpga.

> it also has practical benefits if you are looking to build on the design to say, integrate an fpga.

Okay, what prevents me from designing my own PCB to replace the one in my phone? I can measure the physical dimensions, look up the datasheet for the LCD screen and camera connector and get a new board made.

Since this isn't very practical, no one does it.

It's going to cost far more than any reasonable person would spend to manufacture a modified PCB with an FPGA for this laptop.

If you're going to tell me "well the design is open so you can kickstart it as an alternative" then I'd invite you to ask the OpenMoko guys about how many units they sold. [0]

For anyone who wants a "modular" laptop, just buy one of the above HDMI/USB "lapdocks" and Velcro the Raspberry Pi to the back of the LCD. In the long run it will be just as robust and "modular" as this Olimex product.

I previously worked on getting Debian+E17 running on the OpenMoko, so I'm not just talking out my ass on this.

[0] https://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04

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