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Living a Meaningful Life

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Re: Living a Meaningful Life

#41

Post by mmirate »

konschubert wrote: post #38
mmirate wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. If I read the great-grandparent correctly, violence is only needed as an outlet because the majority of humans don't have a particular combination of attributes; therefore, one solution to that brand of inevitable violence, is to artificially select for precisely those attributes.

You seem to forget that the act of selecting is an act of violence by itself.

Hence my particular turn-of-phrase: "that brand of inevitable violence [described by anigbrowl]". Yes, I probably should have included that bracketed clause.

(aside: AFAICT, needing violence to remove violence is as much an inevitability as needing guns to remove guns.)

Re: Living a Meaningful Life

#42

Post by mmirate »

mmirate wrote: post #28
qntty wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's reassuring since it doesn't appear to be an argument for eugenics at all.

It is. If I read the great-grandparent correctly, violence is only needed as an outlet because the majority of humans don't have a particular combination of attributes; therefore, one solution to that brand of inevitable violence, is to artificially select for precisely those attributes.

Oh, and nothing's wrong with me. I'm merely able to think of preconditions as potential subproblems.

(dead comments' unrepliability is rather annoying, btw)

Re: Living a Meaningful Life

#44

Post by anigbrowl »

mmirate wrote: post #24
anigbrowl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so surprising, since most people enjoy the satisfaction of having their plans work out, achieving goals and so on - and consumerism, the dominant 'philosophy' of western liberalism, is all about the accumulation of satisfying experiences. Of course, this doesn't sound all that great when it's reduced to its bare bones. That's why extremist ideologues often find great political success by promoting a stark message…

> we're not really cut out for long-term thinking and abstract mentation for its own sake appeals to only a tiny minority. There is great value to living in the moment but most people don't know how to do it That's the most convincing argument in favor of eugenics that I've ever heard. It's a shame that we can't easily test for affinity for long-term, abstract thinking; nor for ability to live in the moment.

I'm utterly opposed to eugenics, and don't think it would be an effective or efficient route to improving society.

Re: Living a Meaningful Life

#45

Post by anigbrowl »

mmirate wrote: post #28
qntty wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's reassuring since it doesn't appear to be an argument for eugenics at all.

It is. If I read the great-grandparent correctly, violence is only needed as an outlet because the majority of humans don't have a particular combination of attributes; therefore, one solution to that brand of inevitable violence, is to artificially select for precisely those attributes.

No, you haven't read it correctly, and I apologize for the lack of clarity in my remarks.

My argument is that violence is only needed as an outlet because some people (a smallish minority) are willing to use it on a discretionary to further their own ends.

I do not have omniscient knowledge of the causes and dynamics of violence. If it were possible to make a few thousand clones of myself and put them on an island with abundant resources (let's not worry about reproduction in this example), I can't say that violence would never break out because opinions would inevitably diverge in the light of my clones' diverse experiences, and if the differences of opinion proved irreconcilable then conflict could break out and violence might might ensue. Since we're talking about my clones arguments are virtually guaranteed :-)

tl;dr a nation of philosophers would not necessarily be peaceful under all circumstances, and I think you'd be foolish to attempt to engineer such a thing. I don't know with which aspects of my personality can be ascribed to genetics and which are a function of my upbringing or adult experience.

Re: Living a Meaningful Life

#46

Post by anigbrowl »

konschubert wrote: post #33
anigbrowl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so surprising, since most people enjoy the satisfaction of having their plans work out, achieving goals and so on - and consumerism, the dominant 'philosophy' of western liberalism, is all about the accumulation of satisfying experiences. Of course, this doesn't sound all that great when it's reduced to its bare bones. That's why extremist ideologues often find great political success by promoting a stark message…

I think there is a lot of truth in your comment. But I also noticed that are drawing connections between things and presenting them as evident and exclusive, apparently without thinking about other effects. For example you say > danger is highly correlated with sexual arousal for evolutionary reasons - hence the epidemic of rape during wartime I doubt the premise. But more than that, doubt that the epidemic of rape i…

Thanks for the feedback. I feel we're making the same point in different ways - I suppose I opted for a stylistic flourish at the expense of clarity. I don't men that men (most soldiers being men) are sexually aroused by imminent fear and autonomically assault the nearest convenient victim, but rather than that sense of present and ongoing trauma promotes violent opportunism against vulnerable persons.

I mention the evolutionary basis because it seems obvious to me that if your future survival is in constant jeopardy and your priority was to pass on your genome at all costs then you'd try to have sex any time the opportunity arose just in case it was the last time. But yeah I'm making some sweeping assumptions and stating them a bit arrogantly too.

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