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Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

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11–20 of 153 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#11
There's probably some element of the Prisoner's Dilemma at play here. I'd join a union if I knew that we'd all have normal working conditions, no forced or coerced overtime, guaranteed health care, a pension plan, and a reserve in case of strike (the only thing unions have to negotiate with management). I'd accept a sizable pay cut if all that could be brought to the table.

But unless there's critical mass, it's every code monkey for his or herself. So I contract myself to the highest bidder and wait for the revolution :)

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leveraged into poverty? Developer salaries range from 50-65k starting to 250k plus. Then there's freelancing.

Depends on where you're at, right? You'll find tons of developers on Upwork willing to work for less. Isn't that the future for most of us? We're tomorrow's factory workers. Corporations have already shown that they'll work to suppress wages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L... The long game is to promote STEM fields and increase supply - pushing down wages and benefits.

Haven't people been saying that for decades now?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#14
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I feel like people unionize when they're being taken advantage of and need to fight for better employment conditions....but developers have it pretty nice, all in all, most of us. I don't feel much incentive to unionize when I'm making $50/hr+ and have unlimited vacation.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#15
Generally unionization is fought fairly hard by companies for the simple reason that it restricts what they can do and takes some control out of the hands of management. In the Bay area in the late 80's there was mumbling about unions after the great semiconductor flame out. A lot of people were laid off without warning and since it was widespread the ability to walk across the street and get rehired was limited. Since you can't really unionize when you aren't working somewhere, and when the people working somewhere are just glad they weren't the ones laid off, its hard to convince them they need to come on board.

As employer abuses, such as the 'no poaching agreement' came to light, or sudden changes in salary compensation etc. That provides incentive but it often isn't enough incentive to start the really vicious knock down drawn out fight that unionizing would entail.

Bottom line I think it would take a perfect storm of events, gross employer abuse, a large group of people who feel they have nothing to lose, and the prospect of a very bleak future unless something radical changes. We saw what happens when those forces align last Noveember, it doesn't happen all that often.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#16
post #11

There's probably some element of the Prisoner's Dilemma at play here. I'd join a union if I knew that we'd all have normal working conditions, no forced or coerced overtime, guaranteed health care, a pension plan, and a reserve in case of strike (the only thing unions have to negotiate with management). I'd accept a sizable pay cut if all that could be brought to the table. But unless there's critical mass, it's ever…

Why would a pay cut be involved? It's not clear to me the would be a pay cut. And without a pay cut how is the Prisoners Dilemma relevant?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leveraged into poverty? Developer salaries range from 50-65k starting to 250k plus. Then there's freelancing.

Depends on where you're at, right? You'll find tons of developers on Upwork willing to work for less. Isn't that the future for most of us? We're tomorrow's factory workers. Corporations have already shown that they'll work to suppress wages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L... The long game is to promote STEM fields and increase supply - pushing down wages and benefits.

No offense, because this isn't directed at you specifically, but developers on Upwork selling themselves short are doing so because they lack the social skills necessary to thrive in a freelance environment.

There are so many business opportunities to build quality software for a very steep price it's incredible. But developers can have a pretty hard time understanding how to sell themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#20
What could I expect to change in my daily working life by joining your "new model union"?

Unions got buy-in from workers because they offered tangible benefits to workers. Shorter days, medical care, better pay, and so on. The items you list are public policy concerns that align well with a variety of advocacy groups. In virtually all cases, a specialist advocacy group seems better-suited to addressing the problem than a union.

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