Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#1

Post by quinequine » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 11:49 PM UTC

I'm not talking about your Dad or Grandma's union of yesteryear but a new type of union focused on collective bargaining for issues that matter and taking decisive action.

Our new style of union would:

- Encourage corporations to take security and privacy seriously

- Advocate for those affected by automation

- Aide in the creation of standards

- Support free and open source software communities

- Strengthen the efforts of organizations like EFF, Archive.org, Tor, etc

- Advocate for a free and open internet

- Counterbalance corporate interests

Once upon a time, unions did a lot of good for working and middle class people and they failed ultimately in the end.

It seems we as developers have the power to create a new type of union. A new model that disrupts old ideas for collective bargaining and actually does some good in the world.

What will our legacy be? Some things in life are greater than code.

Why don't developers unionize?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#2

Post by shams93 » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 11:52 PM UTC

If it wasn't for Steve Jobs we might have agents like Hollywood actors. To me the real question is why don't we have agents like actors and basketball players? We could be like actors and have both a union and our own agents. But thanks to Jobs conspiring to hold back engineer income we have a situation where we are often leveraged into poverty.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#3

Post by gigatexal » Fri, Feb 03, 2017, 11:58 PM UTC

shams93 wrote: post #2

If it wasn't for Steve Jobs we might have agents like Hollywood actors. To me the real question is why don't we have agents like actors and basketball players? We could be like actors and have both a union and our own agents. But thanks to Jobs conspiring to hold back engineer income we have a situation where we are often leveraged into poverty.

Leveraged into poverty? Developer salaries range from 50-65k starting to 250k plus. Then there's freelancing.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#4

Post by quinequine » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 12:07 AM UTC

gigatexal wrote: post #3

shams93 wrote: post #2

If it wasn't for Steve Jobs we might have agents like Hollywood actors. To me the real question is why don't we have agents like actors and basketball players? We could be like actors and have both a union and our own agents. But thanks to Jobs conspiring to hold back engineer income we have a situation where we are often leveraged into poverty.

Leveraged into poverty? Developer salaries range from 50-65k starting to 250k plus. Then there's freelancing.

Depends on where you're at, right? You'll find tons of developers on Upwork willing to work for less.

Isn't that the future for most of us? We're tomorrow's factory workers. Corporations have already shown that they'll work to suppress wages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

The long game is to promote STEM fields and increase supply - pushing down wages and benefits.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#5

Post by fiedzia » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 12:08 AM UTC

> Why don't developers unionize?

They don't need to. For any combination of those goals, you can find some company that aligns with them, so just go there. It may not be google or facebook, but you have choice.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#6

Post by WorldMaker » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 12:20 AM UTC

Part of it is that unions are associated with blue-collar work and developers feel that they are "too white-collar" for that sort of thing.

There's no collar boundary to unionization, of course, but there is a perception that there is.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#7

Post by quinequine » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 12:21 AM UTC

fiedzia wrote: post #5

> Why don't developers unionize? They don't need to. For any combination of those goals, you can find some company that aligns with them, so just go there. It may not be google or facebook, but you have choice.

You're right. Most developers don't care about these sort of issues. No need to unionize if you don't care about effecting change. And when you do, just send a donation and call it a day.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#8

Post by tacostakohashi » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 12:28 AM UTC

What you're talking about sounds more like professionalizing than unionizing (although, outside the U.S., the contrast is less profound).

For the reasons you cite, it's a nice idea. The immediate answer is because nobody would agree on what a developer is (do front end developers count? web designers? excel macros?).

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#9

Post by zubat » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 12:29 AM UTC

The market is fluid enough - which isn't to say it's in good shape - that developers who are decent can usually find a high enough salary to stay quiet and cooperate.

Unions arise when workers have a reason not to stay quiet and they lack recourse. But in tech the response to not getting what you want tends to be to raise funds and start your own company, or at minimum freelance. This is imperfect and allows vulnerable people to slip through the cracks. But again, it's not enough to make for a turning point, at least yet.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't developers unionize?

#10

Post by rileymat2 » Sat, Feb 04, 2017, 12:29 AM UTC

WorldMaker wrote: post #6

Part of it is that unions are associated with blue-collar work and developers feel that they are "too white-collar" for that sort of thing. There's no collar boundary to unionization, of course, but there is a perception that there is.

Many professionals like lawyers and doctors may not have Unions, but have strong professional oranizations.