Earlier quoted context omitted.
I notice that reading that link, 22/23 acts of terrorism killing a hundred people or more happened in Iraq and Syria which is literally a war-zone. Just as a thought experiment, if you listed civilian casualties in the Ukraine-Russia war as deaths from terroristic acts you could easily come to the conclusion that it was Eastern-European Christians that were the world's greatest terrorists.
The Bible and Quran share the same DNA. There's no difference between any type of religious extremism, just as there's no difference between any group of humans. The difference is context, and in the case of the Middle East the socioeconomic context is crushingly awful. Much of this (shoutouts to the Hypernomalization mention above, which I can't seem to reply to, excellent documentary) is even a result of more power…
During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
121–130 of 215 posts
Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
#122I like this article because it reminds us that "whiteness" is not actually a strictly racial identity. There are numerous factors that make someone "white" in America, which makes them acceptable to white nationalists. These purity rules can change over time to represent what's politically expedient. Many young Americans are shocked to learn that Italian and Irish (who are often a baseline of appearance in modern Ame…
In another example of America's fluidly morphing standard of whiteness, Finns were sometimes considered Asians: "Finns faced racial discrimination, with many people using the Finnish language as “proof” that Finns were not European and thus fair game to be subject to unfair treatment. Some argued that Finns were Asian, meaning they should be barred from citizenship under the Asian Exclusion Act of the early 1900s. Th…
"There are many reasons for the common understanding forged by Finns and Native Americans, but above all they were united by their intimate relationship with the forest. Just like the Ojibwa Finns hunted, fished and foraged. The locals also valued Finns’ handiwork skills: the ability to build a boat or carve skis. Finns learned how to cultivate maize and use medicinal herbs, among other things. In return they lent their expertise in building log cabins and weaving shoes out of birch bark."
Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
#123The largest mass lynching in the United States was of 11 Italians in New Orleans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_14,_1891_lynchings
Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
#124The largest mass lynching in the United States was of 11 Italians in New Orleans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_14,_1891_lynchings
And just for spice, so we remember this stuff is in living memory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_massacre
Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
#125Seems like a lot of these historical incidents are being brought up recently. They are certainly interesting and perhaps show that humanity as a whole tend to repeat the same actions. But is it also the goal to attempt to justify the current immigration ban by citing history? Conway brought up the Obama's tightening of the Iraqi immigration during his term. Does that somehow justify Trump's immigration ban? I guess y…
1. too many terrorist attacks in the U.S. have been committed by people born overseas
2. many come from certain "bad actor" or otherwise dysfunctional countries; that they are majority-Muslim is true but it's an incidental fact, not the reason, which is international terrorism
3. the visa vetting process is therefore dysfunctional
4. so the U.S. should pause the visa process for countries referenced in point 2 until point 3 is resolved; it's better to be safe than sorry with respect to point 1
It's my understanding that the comparison to Obama is to support that point 2 isn't about being racist but about practical national security concerns that Obama shared. The difference with Obama's policy is a difference in the degree of concern, not type of concern. That is, if Trump is really racist here, then Obama's at least a little racist, which doesn't seem to be the contention of most people appalled by this executive order.
...that's my understanding of the thought process translated into HN-friendly lingo, anyway.
Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
#126Using this as a criticism of Trump's travel ban is a false equivalency. There have literally been a rash of terrorist attacks in Europe perpetrated by radicalized Syrians, Somalians, and Iranians. Not to mention the knife attack from Somalian refugee (who was getting a free ride) at Ohio State. Read through these lists and tell me there is nothing to be worried about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_i…
The number of terrorists that the travel ban would have stopped is at best in the low single digits. It is not at all clear that the number will exceed the number of people in the US who will become radicalized due to this policy (which I would also estimate at low single digits).
Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
#127The largest mass lynching in the United States was of 11 Italians in New Orleans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_14,_1891_lynchings
This page claims 18 to 21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_massacre_of_1871
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot
Technically not a lynching I suppose, but as far as mass killings of minorities go..
Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, "complete BS" right back. > portrayed Chinese men as dangerous to "innocent" and "virtuous" young white women Suspecting a group of criminal activity is hardly terrorism; you could have just quoted attitudes towards blacks for a less obscure analogy. > So your allegation that the linkage of Muslims to terrorist extremism is unique is provably untrue. I never said that no other group has ever been linked to terr…
> I never said that no other group has ever been linked to terrorism. I said it hasn't ever been close to the scale it is now, with major attacks in every culture across dozens of countries. Actually, it was far worse (and more coordinated, backed by—among others—both major superpowers) during much of the Cold War, it's just that the armed forces using terrorism as a mechanism (especially ones successful in seizing a…
There was also a lot of violent groups on the Right, but for whatever reason they didn't get labelled as terrorists as much and didn't seem to have the same kind of view of ideological solidarity. So the Sabra and Shatila massacre doesn't tend to get labelled a terrorist attack even though it dwarfed the actions of most of the above groups in brutality and death toll, and as far as I know there wasn't much solidarity between the Phalange and the KKK (even though they were both violent right-wing Christian groups).
Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
#129Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security
#130I like this article because it reminds us that "whiteness" is not actually a strictly racial identity. There are numerous factors that make someone "white" in America, which makes them acceptable to white nationalists. These purity rules can change over time to represent what's politically expedient. Many young Americans are shocked to learn that Italian and Irish (who are often a baseline of appearance in modern Ame…
First, the article doesn't discuss 'whiteness', so your comment is something of an irrelevant narrative imposition. Second, it's intellectually dishonest to imply that this had anything to do with a malleable concept of race. Italy and the US were at war during WW2, and the additional scrutiny was very clearly based upon ancestral nationality, rather than ethnic, lines.
It discusses "outsider" status, and WW2 represented a massive debate about who was "trustworthy." Historians have pointed out that in many cases these camp approaches were in part appeasement tactics for the rather large fascist movements growing in America. Hell, WW2 was the mark of the last unsuccessful kleptocrat-fascist coup against America lead by the leadership of Chase Manhattan bank in concert with the actual German nazis. It nearly happened, too!
"Whiteness" is A Word for it that fascists don't like, in part because it speaks to their "white homeland" ideology. I rather enjoy using it to point out the other side of what they're polishing is in fact a turd.
> Second, it's intellectually dishonest to imply that this had anything to do with a malleable concept of race. Italy and the US were at war during WW2,
AND YET! Mysteriously! Japanese were specifically targeted for the harshest treatment, Italians the second most, and the fewest German Americans ended up in concentration camps. What's more, it "wasn't about race" but the principle tie for many of these people to these camps was their heritage and if their looks conformed to a stereotype!
Like you yourself said:
> and the additional scrutiny was very clearly based upon ancestral nationality, rather than ethnic, lines.
Honestly, what the hell do YOU think this means? If someone looked the part, as defined by their "ancestral heritage" they had their property seized and their entire families put into war-crime level imprisonment.
And you're going to say, "This isn't about race, it's about ancestral heritage." This just in: That's one of the primary components of race and the racist discourse in America. How many times did we see the Trump campaign supporters point out that if only 3rd greater generation Americans voted, the RNC would win the presidency every time?
You are eager to call it "intellectually dishonest" and maybe that'll work in your christian-sponsored micro-targetted facebook ads and now-banned subreddits. For everyone not looking for an enemy to blame it's the observable and objective facts. None of the concentration camps America set up were fun places, but the ones for the least white-looking people were objectively horrifying, and the seizure of property against that class of people was much more widespread and damaging. More asian-looking people were dissipated than every other category combined.