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During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#31

Post by krapp »

melling wrote: post #29
mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in Trump's camp have used the Japanese internment as "precedent" for a Muslim ban. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/politics/japanese-inte...

Why is called a Muslim ban? The Muslin world is around 1.7 billion people, and dozens of countries (almost 1/3 of world population): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Muslim_Percen... And we have over 3 million Muslims in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States People seem to label everything in politics with a positive or negative name, depending on their beliefs. The left and r…

Why do people keep assuming the intent behind this cannot be to ban Muslims because it doesn't ban all Muslims?

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#32

Post by ardit33 »

dominotw wrote: post #16
ardit33 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Conway brought up the Obama's tightening of the Iraqi immigration during his term. Does that somehow justify Trump's immigration ban? -- No it doesn't What Trump did is not just stop immigration, but completely stop even people with valid visas, and green cards (Permanent Residents) from even entering. This is unheard off. Some of them were "detained", put with handcuffed for over 20 hrs. In the midst of it there we…

>Some of them were "detained", put with handcuffed for over 20 hrs. I have travel coming up in two months, this makes me nervous. Do you have a source for this by any chance?

There are plenty of stories like this:

Sudanese student at Stanford detained, handcuffed at JFK airport

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/28/stanford-university-st...

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#33

Post by paulddraper »

Nice thoughts, but none of the groups you mentioned in your analogy have the worldwide penchant for terrorism that Muslim groups do. Berlin, Brussels, New York, Israel, Orlando, etc.

Italians, Germans, Swedes, Jews, and Japanese didn't immigrate to other countries and slaughter its citizens.

I understand the tiny minority is the problem; just don't think your analogy to these other groups is an apt one.

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#34

Post by ipsin »

melling wrote: post #29
mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in Trump's camp have used the Japanese internment as "precedent" for a Muslim ban. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/politics/japanese-inte...

Why is called a Muslim ban? The Muslin world is around 1.7 billion people, and dozens of countries (almost 1/3 of world population): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Muslim_Percen... And we have over 3 million Muslims in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States People seem to label everything in politics with a positive or negative name, depending on their beliefs. The left and r…

Because of the stated intent. This article recaps the times when our current president referred to it thus:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/201...

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#35

Post by steveax »

melling wrote: post #29
mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in Trump's camp have used the Japanese internment as "precedent" for a Muslim ban. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/politics/japanese-inte...

Why is called a Muslim ban? The Muslin world is around 1.7 billion people, and dozens of countries (almost 1/3 of world population): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Muslim_Percen... And we have over 3 million Muslims in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States People seem to label everything in politics with a positive or negative name, depending on their beliefs. The left and r…

Because that's what Trump campaigned on and what he called it, until he didn't?

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#36

Post by conistonwater »

ipsin wrote: post #34
melling wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is called a Muslim ban? The Muslin world is around 1.7 billion people, and dozens of countries (almost 1/3 of world population): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Muslim_Percen... And we have over 3 million Muslims in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States People seem to label everything in politics with a positive or negative name, depending on their beliefs. The left and r…

Because of the stated intent. This article recaps the times when our current president referred to it thus: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/201...

This is right: stated intent matters when you choose what to call something. It's not just "labels".

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#37

Post by uxp100 »

minikites wrote: post #2

It's a shame so many people can't function without being afraid/angry at a dehumanized "other". Sometimes it's outright malice (Syrian refugees today), sometimes it's softer but just as harmful ("the Japanese are going to take over the world!!" in the 1980s) and sometimes it's from within (Japanese and Italians in WWII, the entire history of black citizens in the USA). And when a new "enemy" arrives that's more appea…

Just a shitty event some may not be aware of RE: 80s attitudes towards Japanese success:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Vincent_Chin

(Since the first paragraph doesn't spell this out, Vincent's murderers thought he was Japanese.)

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#38

Post by vixen99 »

JackFr wrote: post #19

> By the 1920s, pseudo-scientists and polemicists in the 1920s popularized the notion that Italians were a separate race from Anglo-Americans. These scientists were 'pseudo' only in retrospect. It literally took a world war to knock eugenicists out of the mainstream. As we pat ourselves on the back today for being so rational and enlightened, we would do well to remember episodes like that and restore some sense of h…

Just to be clear, this was not a small group of pseudo intellectuals. Eugenics was applauded almost universally by Progessives and Conservatives among others. Included we can count J. Maynard Keynes, Irving Fischer ('prevention of breeding of the worst'), Gunnar Myrdal (economics Nobel Prize) Bernard Shaw, Harold Laski, Sidney Webb and Julian Huxley, Neville Chamberlain, Winston Churchill and dozens of other famous names. You can say that eugenics was 'received opinion' in that era.

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#39

Post by ctrl-j »

paulddraper wrote: post #33

Nice thoughts, but none of the groups you mentioned in your analogy have the worldwide penchant for terrorism that Muslim groups do. Berlin, Brussels, New York, Israel, Orlando, etc. Italians, Germans, Swedes, Jews, and Japanese didn't immigrate to other countries and slaughter its citizens. I understand the tiny minority is the problem; just don't think your analogy to these other groups is an apt one.

> Italians, Germans, Swedes, Jews, and Japanese didn't immigrate to other countries and slaughter its citizens.

Neither do Muslims? I mean, show me the statistics that show that they have a higher terrorism rate than other groups. The IRA, the extremist christian groups, and the mentally ill all do a lot of damage as well, but they're not being banned from the USA. I think Muslims get targeted by the media because they're different looking, and so they get reported on more thoroughly.

I could very well be wrong, but I honestly don't believe they are statistically more prone to terrorism.

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#40

Post by soheil »

iambateman wrote: post #15

I love this article, because we have to remind people that Americans have been afraid of Italians and Germans and Swedes and Jews and the Japanese and Muslims and the Chinese and DEFINITELY the Irish at one time or another. Established groups feared new groups. But in the end, these people generally brought new innovations and economic growth and interesting new foods. They mashed new cultures with old - not without…

Maybe a better question to ask is why those groups have not been afraid of others at any point? If true, what makes Italians, Germans, Swedes, Jews, Japanese, Muslims, Chinese and the Irish not engage in bigotry and hatred of others. Come to think of it isn't that a sizable segment of the world population? And if so maybe the remaining segment(s) need to be identified better.
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