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Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

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Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#121

Post by justin66 »

ianbicking wrote: post #43

It is inaccurate that the members of the Connected Devices team (not FirefoxOS, which was cancelled a while ago) are simply being laid off. Their positions have (mostly) been eliminated, but there are opportunities for those individuals to find new positions in Mozilla. That's a challenging position to be in (I've gone through it myself at Mozilla, frankly it sucks), but it's not the same as a blanket layoff.

> I've gone through it myself at Mozilla, frankly it sucks

Did they pay you while you interviewed for other jobs?

(if not, it'd be crazy to call it anything other than a layoff)

Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#122

Post by sametmax »

Certhas wrote: post #118
trome wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a hard problem, and Mozilla has put a ton of effort into Rust, but at this point they aren't supporting any of their current extensions (XUL) and WebExtensions will not cover most use cases that XUL covered. This isn't a Python 2 to Python 3 event, this is Mozilla going from the equivalent of C to Java. Most of your favorite extensions will die, and it is directly forcing me to drop firefox for chromium at work…

> WebExtensions will not cover most use cases that XUL covered. This is just FUD. Especially as Mozilla is working closely with the developers of the most popular add ons to make sure all capabilities they need will be available (see also webextension experiments). Of course not all capabilities of XUL will make it, but as Chrome has a vibrant extensive add on community around WebExtension the idea that most usecases…

Apparently, some very popular extensions still have problems with it.

The one that bother me the most is tab group:

https://github.com/Quicksaver/Tab-Groups/issues/535

It was an feature of Firefox that I loved. They removed it. So I now use the extension. And the author is now announcing he won't be able to port it.

Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#123

Post by ianbicking »

justin66 wrote: post #121
ianbicking wrote: post #43

It is inaccurate that the members of the Connected Devices team (not FirefoxOS, which was cancelled a while ago) are simply being laid off. Their positions have (mostly) been eliminated, but there are opportunities for those individuals to find new positions in Mozilla. That's a challenging position to be in (I've gone through it myself at Mozilla, frankly it sucks), but it's not the same as a blanket layoff.

> I've gone through it myself at Mozilla, frankly it sucks Did they pay you while you interviewed for other jobs? (if not, it'd be crazy to call it anything other than a layoff)

It sucks psychologically. You still get paid, have benefits, you interview for the new position but it's not like you put your resume in the stack with everyone else. Still there's no guarantee you'll be able to find another position. But people have used this time as a chance to change their career track, and that probably wouldn't be possible on the open market.

Exact employment status during this interim time is confusing because Mozilla is international and the people affected fall under different labor laws. In the U.S. where there's almost nothing is mandatory you can describe these arrangements any way you want. In Europe if you want to establish a time limit I think you have to actually give the person notice that they are laid off.

Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#124

Post by mercer »

sametmax wrote: post #120
homarp wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>With less versatility, yes. isn't/wasn't that the point of firefox though. >a very good browser doing browser things. Chrome is the competition. Quite good at 'browser' things

Yes. But do in need sqlite manager to be a firefox extension ? I can probably live without it. Do I need it to be at least as fast as chrome ? Yes.

Your comment is a good example tightrope that Mozilla is on.

I've switched to Firefox a few times over the past years, but usually I'd switch back to Chrome because, whether true or not, it felt more performant/cleaner/better. The main reason I bothered trying to switch back to Firefox was always the versatility or 'freedom'. Stuff like the tree-style tab plugin.

Realistically, for me to break my usual patterns and try Firefox again would have to involve at least one of the following:

- equal (perceived) performance to Chrome - freedom/versatility in regards to plugins - some as-of-yet not seen before advantage

With all else being equal, or even ever so slightly worse than Chrome, I'd go for Firefox simply because I distrust Google.

Thing is, I'd characterize myself as much more security- and privacy-conscious than most people, and yet I'm still on Chrome despite giving Firefox a shot at least once a year for the past few years or so. I catch myself forgetting to test the stuff I make on FF occasionally (I'm a web developer). While I'm by no means a paragon of sticking with my beliefs, I'm still a bit of a privacy-weenie. The fact that I'm not using Firefox worries me a bit.

The fact that I can't quite explain it frustrates me. If I had to give a reason as to why I use Chrome instead of Firefox, I'd say there are two primary reasons and a very vague third one:

1. Chrome is just more familiar at this point, especially its dev tools 2. Firefox feels like one of those Java applets: slow to boot and alien to my OS (moreso than Chrome). 3. Chrome feels snappier

Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#125

Post by AnthonyMouse »

coldtea wrote: post #115
trome wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the exact same deal as with IE on Windows just a decade ago, by force bundling it, and then with Apple taking the additional step of blocking ALL competition, you get no choice. Today, I can build a SIP client for the browser and it will work well on every major platform except iOS, where Apple is still dragging ass years after WebRTC was standardized and implemented by every other browser.

> Its the exact same deal as with IE on Windows just a decade ago, by force bundling it, and then with Apple taking the additional step of blocking ALL competition, you get no choice. No, Microsoft was a monopoly on the OS market. You cannot be a monopoly with In other words, people and devs dissatisfied with how iOS does things, can always go to Android (or Windows Phone). People couldn't do that when Windows had 95…

> You cannot be a monopoly with You're assuming "iOS" and "iOS apps" are the same market, which they aren't in the same way that LibreOffice is in the same market with Microsoft Office but not with Microsoft Windows.

The argument you could be trying to make is that Android apps and iOS apps, or Google Play and the iOS App Store, are the same market. But you can't install Android apps on iOS and you can't get iOS apps from Google Play.

And iOS app developers are the customers of the iOS App Store. They pay Apple for it and have no alternative. "Switch to Android" doesn't work because it is the device customer who would have to switch to Android, not the app developer. The app developer is already in both. It's like facing a retail monopoly in California and what you're saying is to go buy retail space in Texas. That's not the same market.

Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#126

Post by dragonwriter »

coldtea wrote: post #115
trome wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the exact same deal as with IE on Windows just a decade ago, by force bundling it, and then with Apple taking the additional step of blocking ALL competition, you get no choice. Today, I can build a SIP client for the browser and it will work well on every major platform except iOS, where Apple is still dragging ass years after WebRTC was standardized and implemented by every other browser.

> Its the exact same deal as with IE on Windows just a decade ago, by force bundling it, and then with Apple taking the additional step of blocking ALL competition, you get no choice. No, Microsoft was a monopoly on the OS market. You cannot be a monopoly with In other words, people and devs dissatisfied with how iOS does things, can always go to Android (or Windows Phone). People couldn't do that when Windows had 95…

> You cannot be a monopoly with You are a monopoly when you have pricing power over some good or service (the ability, in some range, to raise prices without losing sales to a competitor). Having less than 50% share in some market using the market boundaries usually drawn by analysts does not prove or imply the absence of pricing power.

Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#127

Post by coldtea »

dragonwriter wrote: post #126
coldtea wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its the exact same deal as with IE on Windows just a decade ago, by force bundling it, and then with Apple taking the additional step of blocking ALL competition, you get no choice. No, Microsoft was a monopoly on the OS market. You cannot be a monopoly with In other words, people and devs dissatisfied with how iOS does things, can always go to Android (or Windows Phone). People couldn't do that when Windows had 95…

> You cannot be a monopoly with You are a monopoly when you have pricing power over some good or service (the ability, in some range, to raise prices without losing sales to a competitor). Having less than 50% share in some market using the market boundaries usually drawn by analysts does not prove or imply the absence of pricing power.

>You are a monopoly when you have pricing power over some good or service (the ability, in some range, to raise prices without losing sales to a competitor)

The good or service being "mobile phones" or "mobile apps" -- e.g. the whole market they belong to.

Not "iPhones" or "iOS apps".

Any company has "pricing power" over their own products and marketplace.

>Having less than 50% share in some market using the market boundaries usually drawn by analysts does not prove or imply the absence of pricing power.

No, it just makes it irrelevant as to the law.

Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#128

Post by dragonwriter »

coldtea wrote: post #127
dragonwriter wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot be a monopoly with You are a monopoly when you have pricing power over some good or service (the ability, in some range, to raise prices without losing sales to a competitor). Having less than 50% share in some market using the market boundaries usually drawn by analysts does not prove or imply the absence of pricing power.

> You are a monopoly when you have pricing power over some good or service (the ability, in some range, to raise prices without losing sales to a competitor) The good or service being "mobile phones" or "mobile apps" -- e.g. the whole market they belong to. Not "iPhones" or "iOS apps". Any company has "pricing power" over their own products and marketplace. > Having less than 50% share in some market using the market…

> The good or service being "mobile phones" or "mobile apps" -- e.g. the whole market they belong to.

No, it doesn't work that way. If you have pricing power on, say, iPhones -- you can raise the price and sales don't move to someone else -- you have a monopoly because price power demonstrates that whatever putative competitors exist are in a functionally separate market, not substitute products in the same market.

> Any company has "pricing power" over their own products and marketplace.

No, companies in competitive markets lose sales to competitors when they raise prices, which is exactly what pricing power means doesn't happen.

Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#129

Post by BuckRogers »

pjmlp wrote: post #96
BuckRogers wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had perfect omniscience on this one. At least I thought that was the direction they were taking FirefoxOS. In fact, I sent a product request over to Panasonic to make a FirefoxBook about 6 years ago[0] and made sure I mentioned it to Eich as well[1]. Since they were integrating it into their TVs I figured they were my best bet to push the product idea onto. I'm a Mozilla fan and wanted a privacy respecting, libre t…

No thin-client OS that depends on the web is privacy respecting, as applications run on other people's computers. I have to trust them as much as the closed source native applications on my computer, and I know which ones I would prefer.

You're confusing privacy with Free software there, Richard.

Re: Mozilla closes Connected Devices division, lays off 50

#130

Post by BuckRogers »

endemic wrote: post #75
BuckRogers wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had perfect omniscience on this one. At least I thought that was the direction they were taking FirefoxOS. In fact, I sent a product request over to Panasonic to make a FirefoxBook about 6 years ago[0] and made sure I mentioned it to Eich as well[1]. Since they were integrating it into their TVs I figured they were my best bet to push the product idea onto. I'm a Mozilla fan and wanted a privacy respecting, libre t…

Is it too late for them to try such a strategy? It seems Google has proven there's a market for this sort of product. Or is Google Docs (etc.) an additional part of the appeal of Chromebooks? I know there's been backlash regarding student usage tracking with ChromeOS; seems like a point of differentiation for Mozilla. It also would seem to have more synergy with improving the desktop Firefox client.

Pretty much that's it. A lot less conflict of interest with a MozillaBook. They're really the only ones who should be doing such a thing at all. I don't think it's too late but Mozilla isn't listening to me. You raise a great point about synergy between development of Firefox and FirefoxOS. The phone and tablet thing is a joke, the world needs and wants FirefoxBooks (they just don't know it yet).
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