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Let's stop bashing C#

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Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#21

Post by sametmax »

nawtacawp wrote: post #6

If the author wants credibility about bashing C# perhaps they should not generalize other languages within their argument. Can C# not stand on its own merits? As someone who has been using Python for nesrly two decades --How is the author defining 'hipster' languages?

What's more, Python is usually quite appreciated in the .Net community. It's a first class citizen on Azure, it used to have a .Net port (IronPython) and one of the current trending github project for C# is one allowing Python interoperability (https://github.com/trending/c%23)

It's like a grandpa getting angry alone in front of his mirror.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#22

Post by jlawer »

There is no reason to bash C#, but there is still reasons to be on the fence about it.

The runtimes and libraries for non windows platforms are still behind, and are quite new. Additionally while there has been efforts to grow the community and get outside involvement, it is still obvious that Microsoft is the big player, and without their involvement the community might shrink to a fraction of its size.

Microsoft itself complicates matters as for some people it takes a lot to be convinced that "new Microsoft" isn't just old Microsoft in sheeps clothing, and its all a ploy to get people onto their platform so they can lock you in. I have started to be convinced that microsoft has actually turned a leaf and is actually working to build a community and genuinely will support other platforms, but I am always going to be a little cautious... call it post traumatic stress from the early 2000s.

Finally I don't see a reasons to rush to build in C#. It seems a perfectly decent language, but without being experienced in the language is there a problem domain (outside rich client windows apps) where the language is significantly better then other choices?

I don't think C# should be bashed, but I also think it still needs to prove itself to the non windows platform and open source developers.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#23

Post by dpwm »

sametmax wrote: post #17
patatino wrote: post #9

I never heard anyone bashing about C# and I'm writing C# code for 10 years now. There are just plenty of people favouring other languages which is fine. If you're looking for people bashing about it you'll sure find some.. same goes with basically everything.

+1. I mostly heard good thing about C#. It's usually quoted as one of the things MS did right. The biggest rejection comes from the strong windows orientation and the restrictive licenses. Now that the situation is improving for both, you will see the language gain traction.

Despite the strong windows orientation, there was an era when shiny new GTK desktop apps (f-spot for photos, banshee for music) were written in C# using the Gtk# bindings.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#24

Post by pionar »

FrankyHollywood wrote: post #2

Even if C# would be the most technical superior language ever made with every feature you could think of, a lot of developers still don't like it because: - C# smells corporate, being used in many large scale business application. - C# is developed by Microsoft, a billion dollar company itself - The .NET platform is only partial open source So facts don't matter much, it's about smell :)

C# is _guided_ by Microsoft. You can join in on the language design if you want[1].

The .NET platform is now completely open source[2]. The compiler (Roslyn), tooling (cli), the runtime (coreclr), and the standard library (corefx) are all listed there, all under the Apache 2.0 license.

What's not open source?

[1] https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang [2] https://github.com/dotnet/

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#25

Post by dagurp »

patatino wrote: post #9

I never heard anyone bashing about C# and I'm writing C# code for 10 years now. There are just plenty of people favouring other languages which is fine. If you're looking for people bashing about it you'll sure find some.. same goes with basically everything.

I agree. My feeling is that people are generally very positive about C#. It encouraged me to start learning it.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#27

Post by rubber_duck »

patatino wrote: post #9

I never heard anyone bashing about C# and I'm writing C# code for 10 years now. There are just plenty of people favouring other languages which is fine. If you're looking for people bashing about it you'll sure find some.. same goes with basically everything.

There's a small ammount of trolls that spam "M$" kind of arguments but they are largely ignored from what I've seen.

On the flip side there's a lot of people who over-represent C# especially in comparison with Java. I mean the language is very nice, better than Java no doubt - but the platform and ecosystem is much less mature than JVM. Where is the .NET equivalent of ZooKeeper, Hadoop etc. .NET can use those like any other language but the fact of the matter is that Java was and is still the choice on those kinds of projects and the ecosystem is much bigger. Even when .NET gets something from those like Akka.NET, JGit it's usually a worse copy. And JVM ecosystem is much more distributed, there's plenty of stuff going around all over - Scala feels a lot more popular in the real world than F#, Clojure feels like a similarly niche thing but is entirely community driven, and the early results from Graal/Truffle were quite impressive, much better than Microsoft did with the DLR before they left it off to community.

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#28

Post by pionar »

masklinn wrote: post #10
adgasf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that true anymore? I was under the impression that .NET is fully open source: https://dotnetfoundation.org/ Besides that though, C# is much nicer than Java and fills a similar niche.

> I was under the impression that .NET is fully open source: https://dotnetfoundation.org/ That's not of much worth if the design process remains firmly in corporate hands. Microsoft is currently, slowly, opening the process to the community, but even then I expect corporate will continue driving most of the roadmap and keep veto on everything, very much like Swift — which is much much much further on that track than…

Being a little disingenuous there with your first link, only linking to the January archives. The February ones[1] have a lot more activity for only being a couple of days old.

[1]https://lists.dot.net/pipermail/csharplang/2017-February/thr...

Re: Let's stop bashing C#

#29

Post by NicoJuicy »

Why would c# be bashed? On the contrary, i'm detecting a lot of approval of Microsoft and dot net the latest "months"/"years".

Microsoft is doing fine and their products also. Not mentioning the rize of Visual Code that is trending EVERY release :)

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