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Snap commits $2B over 5 years for Google Cloud infrastructure

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Re: Snap commits $2B over 5 years for Google Cloud infrastructure

#161
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean anything, though. "Some people who do X also do Y" does not imply that "people who do Y are qualified to comment on X." For example: Elon Musk is a Twitter user. I too am a Twitter user. So's Kylie Jenner, Donald Trump, and random spambots. Using the same service does not mean they're equally qualified to speak with authority about the same things.

Being a 'random person' or a Twitter user should have no bearing on the merit of one's arguments.

That was the point

Re: Snap commits $2B over 5 years for Google Cloud infrastructure

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 cents per GB is thus approximately $15 per Mbps (8 cents time 190)that Snap is paying, while Google is paying far less than 50 cents per Mbps. Is my math off?

Your units are off. If I push 1 GB per month, https://www.google.com/search?q=1GB%2Fmonth+in+mbps&oq=1GB%2... You can assume they are not paying list rate when they buy $400M of service. If they push ~40gbps on average, that's 13PB - https://www.google.com/search?q=40gbps+*+30+days+in+PB&oq=40... 13PB is 13M GB. 13M GB @ .08/GB = $1.04M $1.04M/40gbps = 1.04M/40000 = $26/Mbps. I pay less than a 10th of that outside.

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Re: Snap commits $2B over 5 years for Google Cloud infrastructure

#163

Needing this amount of resources implies that Snap is expecting huge growth. This sounds like a really bad move on their part and they should have committed to building out their own infrastructure on 'bare metal' over the next 5 years instead. If you read their S-1, they list a dependence on Google cloud as one of their big risk factors. Yet they then go ahead and make this commitment instead of working towards elim…

The other thing you get with GCloud is multiple datacenters around the planet. Assuming Snap are going after the 2billion+ people not in America, this seems like an advantage to use someone else's gear. 2billion seems high, maybe it's the maximum negotiated on paper for the deal as opposed to the guaranteed? When you have Adwords dollars pouring in it makes sense to go send out a few people to buy up fibre and land/p…

This seems like the key to me. Yes, if I'm a SaaS company with low bandwidth requirements but have a ton of users domestically, maybe I'll build my own data center (think IBM, or maybe Salesforce). But if I am raising money in the hopes of scaling my user base into the billions, and I need hundreds of millions of people to be able to upload to and download hundreds of megabytes of data to my servers daily, and have those images be instantly available to every user's contacts worldwide, I'll build on top of Google's infrastructure, which was literally designed for these kinds of tasks. Buying the metal is just the tip of the iceberg when. Snap would have to design a high-throughput, globally consistent network of data centers, likely lay their own undersea fiber (as all the cloud providers have done), and assume all the technical risk that comes with building and operating that kind of infrastructure. I think they made the right call on this one.

Re: Snap commits $2B over 5 years for Google Cloud infrastructure

#165
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Script your stuff out in Ansible or something similar, run it on your own hardware, and use GCloud/EC2 as secondary data centers for failover/backup/support/emergency bursts/whatever. You can have the flexibility without paying through the nose. Except then you have to run your own networking and when shit fails (as disks, links, and switches are want to do), it's now "your problem". Hybrid clouds and not being a t…

And when EC2 falls over, like it tends to do a few times a year? Hosts fall over, stuff dies. Something the scale of Snap, you're going to be doing setups that look a lot like cloud anyways. Bringing new systems up either by cloning a disk or through using PXE, setting up clustering, possibly by using the stuff they're already using, etc. You're going to be writing a lot of the same fallover code if you're running on…

> And when EC2 falls over, like it tends to do a few times a year?

Multi-AZ, multi-region complete failures are very, very rare. How often do you get a failure in your data center per year (that you notice)?

> You're going to be writing a lot of the same fallover code if you're running on someone else's hardware, so why rent?

The answer is in the question -- when rented things fall down and go boom™, your code runs and someone gets a text message with the receipt.

When a handful of the "wrong" disks decide to revert to air-blocking bricks or your upstream network provider has an outage, you're lucky if it's something you can fix by heading to the data center. I promise that AWS or Google is better at running a DC, and unless you're trying to enter the hosting business, I wouldn't advise spending the time and money to meet their uptime and features.

I've only managed data storage in the scale of many petabytes (and this was a handful of years ago) and honestly, I think it required at least 20 hours a week of babysitting by various staff. At Snap's scale and traffic patterns (viral content, lots of writes, so on), I imagine this is a very non-trivial spend on scaling, staffing, tech implementation.

At 2bb over 5 years, maybe Snap would benefit from rolling their own -- hiring 50 great hackers at a mildly conservative 250k/head (say 200k average + benefits + taxes + employee support costs (HR, payroll, recruiting, legal, etc)), eating a year or two of transition costs off their cloud hosting providers, then probably saving a bit of money even after hardware, bandwidth, facility, insurance costs. Hell, maybe they'd even open source some software and recruiting would get easier after conference talks of how they did it. Or maybe they get bought by Google or Facebook in a year. Snap's in the business of selling ads and getting more eyes on those ads. Whatever enables growth and doesn't serve as a distraction or speedbump is a "fine" decision.

Re: Snap commits $2B over 5 years for Google Cloud infrastructure

#166
post #99

Needing this amount of resources implies that Snap is expecting huge growth. This sounds like a really bad move on their part and they should have committed to building out their own infrastructure on 'bare metal' over the next 5 years instead. If you read their S-1, they list a dependence on Google cloud as one of their big risk factors. Yet they then go ahead and make this commitment instead of working towards elim…

I love Hacker News, where a random person can tell a company their $2 billion plan on infrastructure is "a really bad move" with authority

We'll learn when they have to report quarterly earnings what their cash burn is, then we random people can tell them how dumb they were in hindsight.

Re: Snap commits $2B over 5 years for Google Cloud infrastructure

#167
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Hacker News, where a random person can tell a company their $2 billion plan on infrastructure is "a really bad move" with authority

Pretty sure HN readers work at these companies...

and HN includes investors and people in financial services...

Re: Snap commits $2B over 5 years for Google Cloud infrastructure

#169
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why opt for Google if you're going to use containers in Kubernetes? You then become cloud agnostic. You can even move to your own datacenter at some point (relatively) easily. Dropbox built out their own environment (and did it migrating 500PB out of S3) [1] [1a]. As did Twitter [2]. And Facebook [3]. And GitLab [4] (too soon?) As well as Mixpanel [5]. Even Twilio is multi-cloud (last time I checked it was split betw…

Ffs, reply to the comments replying to you, that's what the feature is there for. Don't preempt them by editing your comment so people see your response first.

There is a penalty box for accounts that are determined unsavory, like mine, where they have a finely-controlled quota of commentary beyond which they are "submitting too fast" and told to slow down. Everyone has this limit, it's just for some accounts it has been set significantly lower. I suspect with that system you'll see this more, rather than less.

Re: Snap commits $2B over 5 years for Google Cloud infrastructure

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook reported $27 billion in revenue in 2016. Snap reported $400 million. You're talking two orders of magnitude lower than Facebook and almost three lower than Google. Snap simply does not have the resources to pour into custom data centers, even if they can raise $2 billion for infra over 5 years. Unless they have serious talent already, they're not going to match Google's massive 15 year investments by a long…

Yep, agreed. Snap only has 1900 employees.

That seems like a lot of people, especially when they buy infrastructure from Google.
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