Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 71 posts

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#41

Post by elmerfud »

jsutton wrote: post #7
elmerfud wrote: post #3

I'm not sure I totally agree with the idea to cut funds, but there is certainly a problem where protesters have forgotten how to be peaceable. This is kind of a natural out growth of the "ends justify the means" philosophy. Since people replying can't seem to read critically let me clarify. I didn't say ALL or most protests haven't been peaceable. Because you can cite peaceful ones does not mean that there is not a p…

The vast majority of recent protests in this country have been completely peaceful. I don't think it's a problem of protesters forgetting how to be peaceful, but rather small group(s) of violent people that are drawn to certain protests with the intention of violence.

What you're saying there is just violent groups of people who are showing up to places randomly to be violent for no reason other than to be violent.

That's just ignorance. There are people showing up to protest something with the intention of being violent. They weren't there by accident, or random luck. They (those few violent ones) were protestors who had forgotten how to be peaceable.

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#42

Post by vkou »

Wildgoose wrote: post #25
vkou wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at similar protests at UW, where one of Milo's supporters shot an unarmed man, the police released him without charges. This should tell you exactly where the police stand, vis-a-vis fascism in America.

It wasn't one of Milo's supporters, it was another (violent) protestor. [Edit] Seems I have been misinformed.

He was absolutely one of Milo's supporters (Regardless how much Milo is trying to distance himself from him) - his facebook page makes his love for all things Milo, Trump, and the NRA clear.

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#43

Post by williamgb »

vkou wrote: post #16
Alex3917 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of what you want to call it, the real question is why liberals are now fighting against civil liberties.

Milo has no god-enshrined right to hold a rally at a university campus, just like he has no god-enshrined right to hold one at the country club down the road. It is completely consistent to protest the establishments allowing him to do so. There is also the argument that fascism is an existential threat to liberal democracy. See the paradox of tolerance.

He was holding a rally?

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#44

Post by koenigdavidmj »

leoh wrote: post #23
monksy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have federal funding they do. (Amongst a lot of other things that they're required to enforce)

Hate speech is not protected by the first amendment.

Hate speech is a concept that does not exist in American law. It is not one of the exceptions to the 1A (such as obscenity or slander).

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#45

Post by grzm »

leoh wrote: post #23
monksy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have federal funding they do. (Amongst a lot of other things that they're required to enforce)

Hate speech is not protected by the first amendment.

Would you elaborate as to what you mean, preferably with some examples? The US has generally been pretty liberal in protecting free speech. For example, affording the KKK protection to march in Skokie, Illinois.

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#46

Post by dragonwriter »

monksy wrote: post #15
vkou wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at similar protests at UW, where one of Milo's supporters shot an unarmed man, the police released him without charges. This should tell you exactly where the police stand, vis-a-vis fascism in America.

Why exactly was he not charged? The police aren't exactly there to say "oh yea you did it .. but you're free to go" They're highly incentivized to put people in jail.

> They're highly incentivized to put people in jail.

Not really; they get paid the same either way. Absent a leadership focus on specific categories of crime or groups of offenders, or personal biases, police don't have a lot of incentive to put anybody in jail.

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#47

Post by simonh »

Alex3917 wrote: post #8
general_ai wrote: post #4

That wasn't a protest. That was a riot. Let's call a spade a spade for once. I dont't expect much from Jeff Bezos's personal blog, but here on HN standards should be higher.

Regardless of what you want to call it, the real question is why liberals are now fighting against civil liberties.

I don't think it's fair to blame 'liberals'. The University which expressed differences with the invitee's beliefs but invited him to speak, struggled to create a safe environment but ultimately was unable to do so, yes. They could be described as liberals. But violent protest is pretty much by definition an illiberal activity.

For example, would you describe the Black Panthers liberals? Personally I wouldn't. They may share some objectives with liberals - equal treatment of a minority - but methods matter. I would no more call those rioters liberals than I'd call white supremacists 'conservatives'.

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#48

Post by elmerfud »

DerpyBaby123 wrote: post #12
elmerfud wrote: post #3

I'm not sure I totally agree with the idea to cut funds, but there is certainly a problem where protesters have forgotten how to be peaceable. This is kind of a natural out growth of the "ends justify the means" philosophy. Since people replying can't seem to read critically let me clarify. I didn't say ALL or most protests haven't been peaceable. Because you can cite peaceful ones does not mean that there is not a p…

Given how often violence is started by police officers, I wouldn't jump to this conclusion. False flag operations also occur, in order to being about exactly the sentiment you're expressing.

Agreed, but with the information provided that doesn't seem to be the case with this incident.

Additionally, in the age of camera phones and live streaming, the best place to fight/resist cops is in court and not the street. Your chances of success are far greater. I would hope UC Berkeley students would know this.

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#49

Post by jamesmp98 »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #44
leoh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate speech is not protected by the first amendment.

Hate speech is a concept that does not exist in American law. It is not one of the exceptions to the 1A (such as obscenity or slander).

I'm halfway glad too.

Re: Trump threatens to cut funds to UC Berkeley after protest

#50

Post by jamesmp98 »

simonh wrote: post #47
Alex3917 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of what you want to call it, the real question is why liberals are now fighting against civil liberties.

I don't think it's fair to blame 'liberals'. The University which expressed differences with the invitee's beliefs but invited him to speak, struggled to create a safe environment but ultimately was unable to do so, yes. They could be described as liberals. But violent protest is pretty much by definition an illiberal activity. For example, would you describe the Black Panthers liberals? Personally I wouldn't. They m…

> I would no more call those rioters liberals than I'd call white supremacists 'conservatives'.

Unfortunately, most of the rest of the country thinks otherwise.

Post reply on HN