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Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

nytimes.com

11–20 of 81 posts

Re: Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

#11
We only every needed technology to make sure ballots get encoded correctly.

We could do that with open source software, commodity PCs and card punch machines and readers.

Then validating that your choices were encoded correctly would be easier. So would counting.

You could count at the voting location to get fast results and recount once the ballots arrive at the central office to confirm that the reported count was correct.

You could keep the initial counts at the polling place. Then later compare those numbers with the second count's to confirm that nothing happened to the ballots.

You also should have a unique number on each ballot that you can later use to look up how your ballot was recorded.

None of this should require advanced technology, new inventions or secrecy.

Re: Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

#12
post #7

This is due to a Dutch ethical hacker (Sijmen Ruwhof) investigating the way that our elections work. He had posted a great research document [0] that showed how bad our current system was. Two days later, we're back to paper. Thanks Sijmen :) [0] https://sijmen.ruwhof.net/weblog/1166-how-to-hack-the-upcomi...

Why does everyone think that hacking the DNC amounted to "hacking the election".

Did anyone complain when Iceland PM resigned as a result of the Panama Papers leak and the large-scale protests that ensued? You wouldn't say that that somebody hacked Iceland's democracy. The truth came out and whatever happened was a natural result of that.

Re: Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

#13
post #7

This is due to a Dutch ethical hacker (Sijmen Ruwhof) investigating the way that our elections work. He had posted a great research document [0] that showed how bad our current system was. Two days later, we're back to paper. Thanks Sijmen :) [0] https://sijmen.ruwhof.net/weblog/1166-how-to-hack-the-upcomi...

Why does everyone think that hacking the DNC amounted to "hacking the election". Did anyone complain when Iceland PM resigned as a result of the Panama Papers leak and the large-scale protests that ensued? You wouldn't say that that somebody hacked Iceland's democracy. The truth came out and whatever happened was a natural result of that.

> You wouldn't say that that somebody hacked Iceland's democracy.

No, you wouldn't. The wailing and gnashing of teeth over the DNC hacks are all because the Democratic leadership is unwilling to accept responsibility for putting forward a bad candidate. Better blame the Russians, instead! If only the public didn't know the truth, we would have won!

Re: Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

#14

Learning from the mistakes of others is a good thing. Though counting by hand has it's own issues ( waves at Florida )

The problem in Florida was not hand-counting - but rather, an absolutely insane (One could almost say 'deliberately sabotaged.') ballot design.

Re: Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

#15
I participated in the experimental deployment of digital ballot box in a rich north Italian region, during regional elections.

The system worked, and worked well. But overall, it was a failure. Putting the digital in something as simple as voting, just increase the risks at all levels: security, deployment, rechecking, etc.

Pen and paper it's just so much better: simple, cost-effective, safe and understandable by anyone.

Re: Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

#16
There are options beyond "hand counting" and "computer software."

IBM was founded, way back when, on what were basically electrical (but not electronic!) census-punch-card-tabulating machines. One could use a similar, or slightly improved, design just as easily, along with correspondent electrical "polling machines" that are essentially a grid of buttons hooked up to pre-patterned card punches.

The whole design could be done by one or two electrical + mechanical engineers in a couple of days (based on previous designs whose patents have long expired) and then given months of testing.

Re: Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

#17
post #7

This is due to a Dutch ethical hacker (Sijmen Ruwhof) investigating the way that our elections work. He had posted a great research document [0] that showed how bad our current system was. Two days later, we're back to paper. Thanks Sijmen :) [0] https://sijmen.ruwhof.net/weblog/1166-how-to-hack-the-upcomi...

Why does everyone think that hacking the DNC amounted to "hacking the election". Did anyone complain when Iceland PM resigned as a result of the Panama Papers leak and the large-scale protests that ensued? You wouldn't say that that somebody hacked Iceland's democracy. The truth came out and whatever happened was a natural result of that.

> You wouldn't say that that somebody hacked Iceland's democracy.

Right, because the Panama Papers leak wasn't a leak targeting specifically one Icelandic party, traced back to a foreign government with active geopolitical disputes with Iceland who also had similar hacks of other Icelandic parties traced back to them with no corresponding leaks.

There are quite a few additional relevant differences, as well, but I think that suffices to demonstrate that the situations are not, at all, parallel with regard to the applicability of the description in question.

Re: Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

#18
In France we count all ballots by hand.

As every ballot station count only his ballots, it's quick.

For a presidential election, maybe 30 minutes.

The counting is done by the citizens, so no (easy) frauds are possible.

All ballots are visible, the process is transparent, no suspicion.

I personally think that a 30min delay to get the election results is worth the wait.

Re: Fearful of Hacking, Dutch Will Count Ballots by Hand

#20
post #7

This is due to a Dutch ethical hacker (Sijmen Ruwhof) investigating the way that our elections work. He had posted a great research document [0] that showed how bad our current system was. Two days later, we're back to paper. Thanks Sijmen :) [0] https://sijmen.ruwhof.net/weblog/1166-how-to-hack-the-upcomi...

Why does everyone think that hacking the DNC amounted to "hacking the election". Did anyone complain when Iceland PM resigned as a result of the Panama Papers leak and the large-scale protests that ensued? You wouldn't say that that somebody hacked Iceland's democracy. The truth came out and whatever happened was a natural result of that.

That just speaks about the misinformation media machine nowadays.

The "hacking of election" is the same thing as having a 1 year media smear campaign between candidates that occurs before the USA elections.

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