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How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

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Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#271

Post by waqf »

jordanb wrote: post #75
gizmo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately this salary requirement means immigration will turn even more into a pay-to-play kind of deal. If you have money (or skills/education) borders disappear and if you're broke you're stuck in a place that offers no decent opportunities. America was built on "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free", and this H-1B change is another step away from that.

"Give me your tired, etc" is fulfilled through the DV lottery program, and support for refugees (now sadly suspended). Temporary Worker Visas have always been about providing foreign labor to American corporations to fix real or imaginary labor shortages.

"Fulfilled", except for the bit where it's a lottery.

"Give me your tired, etc., and bet their future on red maybe six or seven times in a row. If they win every time, send them on. Otherwise screw them."

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#272

Post by johncolanduoni »

bdavisx wrote: post #201
johncolanduoni wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High as compared to what? Supply curves don't operate in a vacuum.

High as compared to other jobs. If the demand for programmers is "1,000" and there are "100" programmers available - how is that different from demand of "100" interpreters but supply is "10"?

If people want twice as many cars as there are, and they want twice as much toilet paper as there are rolls, do you expect rolls of toilet paper to cost as much as a car?

Supply and demand curves are (a) curves, not two points on a line (b) curves as a function of price. You can use them to pick a price, but not to come up with one from amounts of X ex nihilo. Even if we're sticking with the most primitive micro-economic theory here, you've discarded a whole dimension.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#273

Post by lineindc »

ghurtado wrote: post #259
lineindc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was sarcasm, as the /s indicates. If you didn't like the joke downvote and move on.

1. "/s" -> those two characters are not a "get out of jail free card" that allows you to behave without respect and decorum. 2. On HN, flagging a comment like yours is a much more appropriate response than downvote. Maybe once you've had enough of our comments removed you'll start to understand the etiquette around here, but there's easier ways to fit in.

If the "created" field in your profile is of any significance, I've been here for much longer than you. Stop bossing around other people just to feel morally superior.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#274

Post by waqf »

uncoder0 wrote: post #97
ericd wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, it's necessary that it be sufficient for the vast majority of the cases. It's not worth it for most to risk the substantial financial/time outlay to travel/move halfway around the world to visit a country that has a good chance of not letting you in once you arrive on its doorstep.

You think there is a 'good chance' most visa holders will not be allowed entry into the United States this year? The US Issued ~10,000,000 Total Visas in 2015[1] while the current temporary ban on entry only effects at worst ~90,000[2] outstanding visas. Which means roughly ~1% of visas were effected. While a large number of people I don't think this represents a good chance that the US won't honor the VISAs it has i…

The worry isn't the last order, it's the next one. The US set a precedent that they're willing to suddenly, indiscriminately cancel thousands of visas by executive order.

And at NO notice, which means that your worst case isn't just having nothing to show for the thousands of dollars and possibly years of your life you invested in your travel and visa, it's that plus being detained indefinitely with no rights at the US border.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#275

Post by bannedtruth »

sctb wrote: post #193
mrtree wrote: post #9

Immigration is the bane of the West. The less, the better.

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the guidelines after being asked to stop.

And you have some balls saying "repeatedly".

What I said is that immigration is the bane of the West and there are strong arguments that support that. I said it once, you did not asked me to stop, but I say it again now.

You can't just shut down people for saying things that you don't like. This is a relatively public fora, and nowadays it takes more courage to say things that are not the norm that to quietly sheep along the masses.

Shame on you.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#276

Post by byteprogrammer »

whatever_dude wrote: post #56
hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

The H1B as it is has many problems, but a big salary floor is not the way to go in my opinion. Remember H1B is not just for tech workers. If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. They instead need to go after the companies that learned to game the system. I'm not sure what the solution is here.…

I think a minimum wage of 100K for all H1-Bs may not work for all roles, it should be a certain percentage above the prevailing market wage specific to that role.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#277

Post by nemtaro »

mc32 wrote: post #235
devmunchies wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's how America got populated in the first place This isn't 1910. We are the top 5 in the world in population. We don't need as much immigration as we used to. Americans should benefit from the American system before foreigners, like, you know, how every other country works.

In addition with looming automation, we simply cannot employ all the people who want to come here for a job, either skilled or unskilled. We have large swaths of underemployed Americans but it costs companies too much to recondition them, so they prefer new bodies over training the domestic workforce. This should be an opportunity for the likes of YC to double down on extending their know how to American women, Ameri…

The YCs and large companies can easily move their investments and offices to Canada and hire the world's best and brightest there.

I'll give you the often conservative advice:

Tough luck? pull yourself up by your own boot straps! Go to school. Go back to school. Work hard, and interview with Google/Amazon/Microsoft again.

And stop perpetuating the idea that you are at a disadvantage because of immigrants and refugees. If you end up with a job at Apple or eBay or Expedia btw, remember that your livelihood was made possible because of the hard work of immigrants and refugees.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#278

Post by waqf »

Spooky23 wrote: post #37
selectodude wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A movie ticket doesn't guarantee entry to a movie, either. But that would be bananas if they didn't let you in after you bought it.

Actually, it does. It's a contract, although your claim to relief is limited to a refund.

Enforcement of contracts is ultimately dependent on the goodwill of the state, just as honouring visas is.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#279

Post by gumby »

whatever_dude wrote: post #56
hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

The H1B as it is has many problems, but a big salary floor is not the way to go in my opinion. Remember H1B is not just for tech workers. If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. They instead need to go after the companies that learned to game the system. I'm not sure what the solution is here.…

Hear hear, it was a nightmare getting teachers for my kid's German school in SV: so much H1 uncertainty and they usually all vanished at the wrong time (i.e. all taken before the time when teachers change jobs).

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#280

Post by mc32 »

maxerickson wrote: post #265
mc32 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's saying we should have a preference for existing Americans before we handicap foreigners. But with re Americans over other Americans, yes, it makes sense to handicap underprivileged Americans. Give them a leg up on education, training, tax breaks, etc. before we even begin to think of how we can benefit foreigners.

He's saying we should have a preference for existing Americans before we handicap foreigners. Yes, I'm saying that it doesn't accomplish the stated goal. Restrictive immigration policy is worse than a more welcoming policy when you consider the impact on all existing Americans. Immigration is the better policy for Americans, it's just that the benefit is spread out across more people than the downside, so it is easy…

So not only are we wrong, but so is every other country on earth. How is it all countries, many of which would like to become relatively more competitive than America, seem to all be making the same mistake you allude to?

W/re training. America is responsible for training our own, I don't think we should think we should off load that job to say Canada, and in the same way people's home countries should be responsible for their own citizens wellbeing and development. We cannot be responsible for nor absorb the deficiencies by other countries with respect to their own citizens, in effect subsidizing malgovernance.

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