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How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

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Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#191

Post by dekhn »

EduardoBautista wrote: post #176
dekhn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think US owns the cloud, you're not paying attention to China. China owns China's cloud. The US has little to no visibility into these fleets, but they're huge (multiple million-server farms) and they have tons of national customers. This development is politically interesting. National clouds are now a strategic interest. The EU is basically far, far behind in their internal development of national clouds.

I would never risk hosting something in China's cloud fearing that they will shut down my servers to make room for a Chinese competitor.

You're not the target market, anyway...

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#194

Post by Retric »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #153
Retric wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. If you are not willing to pay 100k then finding someone is not the problem. You just don't want to pay market rates. The point of H-1B is when salary is not the problem. PS: Remember, someone on an H-1B can leave your employment. Paying market rates is supposed to keep that from happening, thus the intent is to remove a shortage not lower pay.

What is the market rate of a translator for an uncommon language in Alabama? Where are you getting your data that suggests $100k is not dramatically above market rates for any job where there is a lack of domestic talent and a surplus of foreign talent? Median personal income in the US is $30k, so I don't think it's fair to assume every job is like tech and has market rates in anywhere near the same place.

Are there people in the US who know the language and are not willing to move to Alabama for 95k? Then the market has spoken.

The entire point of capitalism is not everyone get's what they want and price how that is decided.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#195

Post by jacquesm »

mywittyname wrote: post #186
jacquesm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early America was full of Native Americans and they didn't need those immigrants at all. The people that needed the skilled laborers were immigrants themselves. By the way, the very best way to stop immigration is to make other countries wealthy.

You're being intentionally obtuse. Sure, the Native Americans would have gotten along fine with bows and horses. But we are discussing the economy. The growth the US economy throughout its history was driven heavily by immigration.

No, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in your statements.

The Native Americans had an economy too.

> The growth the US economy throughout its history was driven heavily by immigration.

Yes, because of the increase in demand for goods by those immigrants who brought their money/gold/silver if they had it but very little in terms of goods, and if they didn't have anything they immediately went to work in order to make ends meet.

Immigration is good for the economy, which is exactly the conclusion I want you to reach but from the increased demand point of view rather than from the myth that the majority of immigrants in the past were skilled labor (they were rather, on the whole immigrating because of a bleak outlook on their situation in their home countries due to religious persecution or outright poverty, the skilled craftsmen were making good money back where they lived and were much more free in their choices to emigrate or not and contributed only a very small number to the total stream of immigrants).

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#196

Post by gnopgnip »

refurb wrote: post #152
cortuso wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. It's senior level salary in IT (and I think for lawyers and MD's it's not starting salary either), in some cases/states Principal level. I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. If you follow the line: it simply says do not use H1B more. Plus, what international student will do once he completes the college,…

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. I think you need to get out of the Valley. It's come up on HN before how $125K+ salaries might be common in SV, but not in other areas of the US. Make the salary floor $130K and only SV will get to hire H1-Bs.

The salary floor is just the floor at which you do not have to prove you advertised in the US for the position first. Also the current bill proposed in the house would allow bonuses and equity to be considered party of the salary. So you could offer someone $65k a year in salary and $65k a year in stock with 4 year vesting without having to advertise the position in the US first.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#197

Post by NhanH »

refurb wrote: post #146
Retric wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. If you are not willing to pay 100k then finding someone is not the problem. You just don't want to pay market rates. The point of H-1B is when salary is not the problem. PS: Remember, someone on an H-1B can leave your employment. Paying market rates is supposed to keep that from happening, thus the intent is to remove a shortage not lower pay.

So you're argument is that it's impossible for their to be an actual shortage of US workers unless the salary exceed $100K?

I am not the GP, and I do not agree with the statement. However, I have seen it being made numerous times: any shortage of US workers just means the companies are not paying enough (their argument being, try to pay $1mil and you will certainly fill your positions, this is just very minor exaggeration)

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#198

Post by rtkwe »

coredog64 wrote: post #164
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the Dem senators had proposed a plan that had the floor relative to the location and the job, so in this case you'd have to offer 150-200% of what an Ethiopian translator in Alabama would recieve, before you'd be allowed to hire someone via a Visa. That general principal seems reasonable to me, and less Silicon Valley centric than just a flat floor at whatever they think is reasonable for a software de…

No doubt that would open the door to all manner of skullduggery. Infosys then opens a new operation in West Armpit, Alabama and their employees now make 150% of the going rate for Java developers there in West Armpit. It is just a weird quirk that said employees wind up doing lots of travel...

There's a few fixes to that too. Make the pay scaling regional or put in provisions that increase the floor based on percentage travel or where the visa job would work.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#200

Post by lukeschlather »

mi100hael wrote: post #108
lukeschlather wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a problem (if it is a problem) that should be addressed by limiting the number of student visas, not by allowing people to get a valuable US education and then telling them to go home. I've worked with many people on H1Bs and student visas. Every single one of them was a valuable person to work with, and they should be citizens. Maybe universities are becoming green card mills, but in my experience e…

> I've worked with many people on H1Bs and student visas. Every single one of them was a valuable person to work with, and they should be citizens. In what industry do you work? As a software engineer, I've worked with a lot of people on H-1Bs. They are normal, nice people like anyone else I'd have no problem with them becoming citizens given the proper process, but I wouldn't say they brought more value than any Ame…

I didn't say they are more valuable, I said they are valuable, and that they are American programmers and the law should be corrected to reflect that.
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